Marketing the 4 hour public round

[Mike_Sweeney]

This is the first time that I have seen a course actually market the 4 hour round at a public course. I have never played the course, but why don't we see this more often?

http://www.bowlinggreengolf.com/page/514-20452.htm

[Dan_Callahan]

Brilliant. Makes me want to drive to New Jersey and tee it up there just to support them. I love the policy of asking slow players to leave and giving them a refund.

[Chris Cupit]

Fantastic that someone is addressing one of the two major issues hurting golf today--time and expense.

[Jason Blasberg]

Unfortunately the reason why we don't see more of this is that clubs live on cart revenue and carts do NOT lend themselves to 4 hour rounds, then, tack on a prickly super or bad weather, and a cart path only rule == a 5 plus hour round every time.

Carry them on your back and we can all play in less than 4 hours everywhere except Bethpage Black.

[PThomas]

a key to this, I think, is that they went to 10 minute intervals

[JohnV]

In 2002, Pajaro Valley, home of Pete Galea, promoted Fast Play Wednesdays.  If you played in 4 hours or less, you got $5.00 back from your green fees.

A group of 4 of GCAs supported it by playing the first week.

I don't know if it really worked or not or if they are still doing it.

[Tom Huckaby]

JV - great call - I immediately thought of Pajaro when I saw this as well.  Pete needs to chime in and update.  I thought the program went generally well.... But I do know that one time when I went down and played in it, we got behind a guy who literally said "what do I care about $5?  I'll take as long as I want."  And of course, all it takes is one recalcitrant prick like that to ruin it for all....

Of course, the hope is that over the long haul, the pricks would shy away from these times.  I think that actually did happen at Pajaro... But hopefully Pete can report.

TH

[Greg Tallman]

Wonder how they handle that 7:30-7:50 group of 12 that just won't play in the 4 hour timeframe... with 100+ players behind them all claiming that the only reason they came was the 4 hour rounds?

[Mike Hoak]

Cannon Ridge in Fredericksburg, VA, shortly after opening, marketed itself under the tag line "Home of the 4 Hour Round."  Needless to say, it did not take long for them to drop that moniker.

[Cliff Hamm]

Played Bowling Green back around 1970 and remember it is a solid and tight golf course designed by Cornish...

Obviously their policy is to be applauded.  Played Newport National last week as a twosome, which is one of the most enjoyable courses I have played.  Unfortunately the group ahead of us ruined the day.  They were on the first green when we teed off and had no one ahead of them.  We had no one behind us.  Played an enjoyable front nine in 2 hours.

On the 11th play came to a screeching halt as they looked for lost balls.  Caught them on the 12th, short par 4, and were not asked to play through.  Caught them on the 13th, a par 3, and the 14th, a par 5 - again not asked to play thru.  I am not a believer in asking.  By this point numerous groups were being held up.  By the time we got to the 17th tee, and we slowed our play so as not to catch them on every tee, I counted 6 groups (looked like all foursomes)being held up.

When we got to the parking lot I couldn't help but mention to one of the golfers that their etiquette really left something to be desired.  He, of course, became angry and defensive.  Mentioned that we were a twosome so that is why we were quicker.  I mentioned that at least 6 groups of foursomes were being held up by them.  He retorted that they played in 41/2 hours (didn't  mention 2 1/2 on the back) so that was quick enough.  

In essence 4 1/2 hours was the holy grail.  Too bad if you hold people up.  Unfortunately, this attitude is way too common and what ruins an otherwise enjoyable round.  I fail to understand why marshalls can't do their job.  On this day there were none.  

Another round this summer, however, as we waited forever and a marshall rode up, mentioned that the  group 2 holes ahead were holding us up.  The response was classic "Oh, they always play slow.  Nothing we can do about it".  This is just a vent but again I applaud Bowling Green for marketing a fast pace and actually doing something about it.

[Dan_Callahan]

Cliff,

That's one of the reasons I favor Blackstone National over the other upscale publics. I prefer the design of Red Tail and Newport, but Blackstone has very aggressive rangers who are not afraid to address slow play.

I was there on a Saturday morning in August, a time on most courses that is a death march. We got around in 4 hours and were even warned ourselves at one point when, on the par 5 eighth, all of us hit balls that weren't readily findable (okay, they were all in the woods—damn dogleg wasn't as long as it looked). After that, we never fell out of place again and never had the group behind us waiting, but it was good to know there was someone out there with a cattle prod to keep things moving.

[Cliff Hamm]

Dan...funny you should mention that.  In my post I almost mentioned a round at Red Tail that was also far from optimal with no ranger in site.  While the day is never really ruined at these courses it is far from what golf should be.  Agree, wholeheartedly with Blackstone and glad they moved you slow folks along . Played there also this fall on a weeday with no one in front and no one behind.  On the back caught some folks but nothing to whine about.  Your experineces at these 3 courses mimics mine.  

FWIW I have also found Waverly Oaks to move along but have only played there twice.  I do believe that Waverly advertises a flag system altho I've never seen it used.  If you're slow they put a yellow flag on your cart meaning get moving.  If it continues a red meaning one more warning and you're out.  That may not be the exact system but something like that and hopefully avoids verbal altercations.  Guess if you're walking you always keep pace  

[Mike_Cirba]

Bowling Green is a pretty cool course in upstate NJ and certainly a great nature visit, as they advertise.

Love their marketing angle, and hope it spreads like wildfire.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think this policy as explained in the website should be mandatory reading at the National Golf Course Owner's Association yearly meeting. Unless management is proactive, 4.5 to 5.5 hour weekend rounds for foursomes playing fourball will continue.

[Michael Hayes]

I really love this idea, it is something our golf course here in Idaho is planning for next season.  
In addition to the 4 hour round we are going to try an hour of tee times just for 2 ball at 5 minute intervals.  We are targeting the low handicappers in our database for this early morning program...

Michael Hayes

[Dan_Callahan]

For the last 10 years, I have been a member of a private club in Connecticut. In the summer, I played (on average) 5 times a week.

This summer, I moved to Massachusetts and have not yet joined a private club. Because of the brutally slow pace of play at public courses around here, I have played THREE times since July 1. That sucks.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
Sounds like a good marketing tool, but I don't see the need to alienate customers, even 'chronically' slow players. A better policy would be one where the 'offenders' were given a rain check for the last tee times on slower days. Couple this with a little 'education' about how to keep up and you make for a loyal and happy consumer instead of a potential detractor.
I also don't see the need to lose the tee times on hole #10, it's a great place to sell an hour or an 1 1/2's worth of nine hole rounds at the beginning of the day.

[Cliff Hamm]

Sounds like a good marketing tool, but I don't see the need to alienate customers, even 'chronically' slow players.  

Jim...I suspect very few players are asked to leave.  The starter likely tells folks the policy so if you are slow and tactfully asked to move it , one is not surprised. More importantly courses develop cultures just like neighborhoods.  Some neighborhoods have beautiful lawns and everyone follows suit.  In others pink flamingos are part of the cullture.  Once a course establishes a culture of fast play my guess is that few play slowly.  The key is for a course to have policies so that a fast play culture develops.  The first couple years may be trying but the end result would be worth it.

[Jerry Kluger]

This is good marketing but a couple of bad groups and it is over.  I played a public course this past weekend which his about 6,100 yards from the tips with a rating of 68.5 and a slope of 114, and most people play it at about 5,800.  There really isn't much trouble so it shouldn't take that long to play. We walked and played in just under two hours for the front, the back took nearly two and a half hours - there is no reason for it but if one group falls a hole behind and then another falls a hole behind you are nearly 30 minutes behind and that's the end of your four hour round.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I fully expect more marketing of 9 holes rates and promoting 2 hour golf experiences.