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Brad Tufts

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SF golf
« on: November 02, 2006, 11:06:27 AM »
All San Franciscans past and present-

I'm preliminarily considering a trip to SF next mid-April.  It would potentially be a Thurs-most of Monday.  Apart from The OC, SFGC, Lake Merced, Stanford, Meadow Club, Peninsula, and Harding (what a 5 days that would be).....where would I consider playing?  My terms:

1.  We are most likely talking Public golf here within 2 hours of the city.

2.  I've checked out the websites of Half Moon Bay (looks pretty but not too much bang for your $150) and Bodega (lots of house-lined holes) and they don't seem too exciting.  I'm looking for your hidden gems, extra points for quirk.  I'm trying to avoid paying >$100 for boredom.

3.  I know the conditions won't be F & F in April, but that's ok.  Do they aerate in April or anything important to know like that?

4.  I will keep the munis in mind as well.  Gleneagles, Lincoln, and Sharp sound like fun as a fallback plan.

5.  I'm saving Monterey for another trip, barring something unexpected happening.

6.  AND NO "THE RANCH"....haha

Any input would be appreciated.....thanks!!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 11:17:19 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Jim Sweeney

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2006, 11:08:10 AM »
Pasatiempo. I believe that is with in 2 hrs.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Mike Benham

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2006, 11:09:01 AM »
Try the search feature as this topic has been addressed many times ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

PThomas

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2006, 11:11:31 AM »
that is the time of year when courses do aerify, so be careful about that!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tom Huckaby

Re:SF golf
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2006, 11:16:46 AM »
My friend  and fellow local Mike is right - we have covered this seemingly countless times.  It is a little wearying to go over again.... sorry Brad!

Just do note that April IS normal aeration time - most courses out here do April/October, more or less.  Make sure to call and check wherever you go - some are quite different - we are the home of microclimates and the aeration schedules can also be very unique.

Note also that 2 hours from SF covers a LOT of area.  Jim's right - Pasatiempo falls well within that, and should be priority 1.

I'd also say you won't be bored at either HMB course, nor Bodega Harbour - especially the latter.  If it's quirk that you like, well Bodega has it in spades.  It also has a lot of houses surrounding the front nine... and is a pretty damn long drive... but I can guarantee you wouldn't be bored.

Hidden gems often mentioned are:

Metropolitan - adjacent to Oakland airport - wonderful bang for the buck, fun, linksy.

Stevinson Ranch - way out to the east, but I believe within two hours....

Shadow Lakes and Roddy Ranch - next to each other in Brentwood quite far east - each relatively inexpensive, quirky, fun....

Oh well, we could go on and on.... the area you are asking for holds hundreds of courses or so it seems.  Do try to search for a prior topic.

TH

David Stamm

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2006, 11:24:46 AM »
Pasatiempo, Pasatiempo and oh yeah, Pasatiempo. Absolutely worth the drive!

I've heard good stuff about Wente Vineyards, but I've never played there.

Did I mention Pasatimepo?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:SF golf
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 11:27:35 AM »
Wente Vineyards is a very fine course - kinda pricey, tough walk, but beautiful, challenging, lots of fun strategic choices.  It's Norman trying to channel Mackenzie.

It's in Livermore... say 60-90 minutes from SF.

There used to be a profile of it in here - Ran deleted it.  Not sure why....

TH

David_Tepper

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2006, 11:49:38 AM »
Brad -

I have lived in SF for 34 years. You should keep on eye the weather in SF for a couple of weeks before you get here. We can get a lot of rain over February/March and the courses can still be pretty soggy in mid-April.

Public courses I would recommend in the North Bay (Marin/Sonoma) are San Geronimo (old-school layout with a few very quirky holes), Windsor (nice routing, former Nike Tour course) and Rooster Run (good linkish muni in Petaluma that drains very well). A weekday green fee on these courses should be no more than $40.

DT

Tim Leahy

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 11:56:57 AM »
For a new visitor I would include the Presidio in SF, check Greenskeeper.org for conditions of courses and aerating notices in No.Cal.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Mike Benham

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2006, 12:45:06 PM »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Aaron Katz

Re:SF golf
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2006, 12:51:41 PM »
I'll second the Wente Vineyards recommendation.  It is a big, beautiful course.  Absolutely massive in scale.  Though that makes it a tough -- if not impossible -- walk, it's a blast to play through the vineyards.  It's usually very empty on weekdays too, IIRC.

Tom Huckaby

Re:SF golf
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2006, 12:59:05 PM »
Mike - you are the man - and those are just the recent times we've covered this!   ;)

Aaron - the weird thing about Wente is that IF you get a ride to 1 tee and from 9 green to 10 tee, it's not a bad walk at all.  You just do need those two rides.  They used to provide for such... I wonder if they even get any walkers at all any more.  I haven't been there in awhile.

TH

Brad Tufts

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2006, 01:34:44 PM »
Thanks guys and Mike especially....I am defintely GCA-search impaired...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

David_Tepper

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2006, 01:42:09 PM »
Brad -

Monarch Bay, a muni in San Leandro, is another pretty good imitation links, similar to the Metropolitan. Green fees can be very inexpensive weekdays.

DT  

ed_getka

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2006, 01:54:05 PM »
Brad,
  Tom pretty much covered what I would recommend. Best architecture for dollars is Pasatiempo (worth the splurge), Stevinson Ranch, Metropolitan. Metro being the best value of all at around $30 during the week.
    Pajaro Valley would another fun course to check out with Pete Galea, GCA stalwart, superintendent, and all around great guy. PV is not far south from Pasa.
   I would also second David T's recommendation of San Geronimo. Not great throughout, but enough good holes for the money to make it worth a look.
   If you want to spend some time in sight of the ocean while golfing then Bodega is a reasonably priced option, and inland from there you have Adobe Creek and Rooster Run in Petaluma.
   Overall, I would most definitely try to see the first three mentioned, as that is the cream of the public access IMO.
    Get in touch if you want to get together at one of these places.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mike Benham

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2006, 01:59:59 PM »
Brad -

Monarch Bay, a muni in San Leandro, is another pretty good imitation links, similar to the Metropolitan. Green fees can be very inexpensive weekdays.

DT  


I happen to like Monarch Bay and Metro, far better then the muni's on my side of the bay.  Conditioning at MB has traditionally been the issue but it does have interesting bunkering, a redanish green on a par-5 and a good mix of holes.

Some Monarch Bay Photos

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Patrick Schultheis

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 02:03:54 PM »
I'll second the Presidio recommendation.  It's been a number of years since I played there, but I've always liked the course.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SF golf
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2006, 02:35:04 PM »
Tim L. & Patrick S. -

I played the Presidio a LOT from the early 1980's till the late 1990's. It is an attractive, compact course with some nice very views.

The two biggest problems there are 1) the course gets VERY soggy over the winter months and 2) you are very lucky to finish in under 5 hours there. It ain't cheap either!

DT

     

Joshua Pettit

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2006, 02:42:45 PM »
San Geronimo Golf Course is in West Marin, about a half hour from the city.  It s a great course in a beautiful setting, although they began building houses on the back nine a couple years ago, but opened in 1965.  Turned out to be the last project he ever did, which would account for the longest spanning career of any golf architect to date (I believe), late teens thru 1965.  The vast majority of his courses were in the Pacific North West and Canada.

The course has evolved from its original state; it closed in the late 70s/early 80s sometime due to financial difficulties, it reopened in 1985 with a new irrigation system and course alterations made, unfortunately, by Robert Muir Graves.  It has had several different owners that have all attempted to create a self-sustaining private club, and none have been successful.  It became fully public in the early 90s and just recently was bought out by American Golf.  The biggest problem has always been an inadequate water supply.  Nowadays they buy most of their water from the Marin Municipal Water District, a very pretty penny, and because of the remote location it has always been difficult to maintain steady levels of play.  Although it saddens me to imagine how great the course was when it first opened, I still think its worth playing, and some of Macan’s original work still exists.  

April might be tricky though, usually wet and rainy depending on the severity of the winter season, and in the past they were on a terrible aerification program that consisted of punching 2-3 greens per week over the course of 6-9 weeks, usually beginning in late March or early April, which always resulted in inconsistent greens for the following 2-3 months.  They believed it to be a money saver, but I think with the new management and a new superintendent that has probably changed.  

I used to play a lot of golf with one of the original owners/developers of the property and he used to tell me stories of how dry and hard and brown the fairways and greens were in the 70s due to a lack of irrigation, like it was a bad thing, and not knowing any better I thought it would have been terrible (you can’t blame me, I am an American).  Now I think, wow, how cool it would be to play out there under such firm and fast conditions.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 02:44:29 PM by Josh Pettit »
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SF golf
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2006, 03:21:48 PM »
Josh -

There is a difference between firm & fast on fast-draining, sand-based soil and baked-out hard-pan on clay-based soil. In the old days, San Geronimo was very much the later, not the former.

Maintaining firm & fast conditions in California, where is does not rain for 6 months and the summer temperatures can reach 90+degrees is a real challenge.

The good news is that they have done a lot of work improving the drainage at San G. over the past few years.

DT  

Gib_Papazian

Re:SF golf
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2006, 03:37:24 PM »
You need to see Meadow Club - DeVries did some work that absolutely enthralls me. Work it out, there are a bunch of us who are friends with the pro - I'll play with you.

Public: San Juan Oaks. San Juan Bautista. Love it, played it 20 times.

-g  

Bill_McBride

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2006, 05:55:20 PM »
No one has mentioned Indian Valley GC, in the boonies outside Novato (30 miles N of SF) - it was my original home course when it opened in 1955.  It was a great place to learn to play, not a lot of flat lies, several very fun short par 4s including the driveable #5 and #9, AND a funicular (look it up  ;D) from the 13th green to the 14th tee!  Never in particularly great condition, it is nonetheless very much fun and an interesting routing.

Michael Dugger

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2006, 10:21:28 PM »
My buddy came back this summer with some pictures of Mare Island, claimed it was a hidden gem.

Anybody been there lately???
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Evan_Green

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2006, 10:33:20 PM »
My buddy came back this summer with some pictures of Mare Island, claimed it was a hidden gem.

Anybody been there lately???
Michael-

Mare Island is as schizophrenic of a golf course as you will find. Certainly fun though. The front nine is very old - fairly simple and solid. The back nine is Robin Nelson and features some incredible elevation changes. There are some really fun 10 second hang time tee shots. I very much prefered the work Robin Nelson did on the back nine, but overall its worth playing for anyone living the Bay Area. Not sure if its good enough to justify the drive for someone visiting San Francisco given the plehthora of options available (although the green fees are VERY reasonable for the Bay Area).

Evan
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 10:33:59 PM by Evan_Green »

Bill_McBride

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Re:SF golf
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2006, 11:12:39 PM »
Didn't know there is a back nine at Mare Island - it was an outstanding nine holer back in the day, with two sets of tees that made it play like eighteen holes.  The tees were widely separated both in distance and angle, made it lots of fun.  My dad did his weekend Naval Reserve meetings over there in Vallejo and it was easy to be dropped off at Mare Island and play a couple of nines until he could catch up.

Another fairly decent course there in Vallejo was Blue Rock Springs.  Is that one still around?  I stuck a transistor radio in my bag one Saturday and listened to the Giants when Willie Mays hit four home runs!  ;D
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 11:12:52 PM by Bill_McBride »

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