Revisit:Forrest Richardson's Hideout across the Colorado from Butch and Sundance

[Garland Bayley]

Forrest's Hideout course is in Monticello, UT, the town nearest to the needles portion of the Canyonlands National Park. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had their hideout in the maze portion of what is now Canyonlands National Park, which is across the Colorado River from the needles.

Unfortunately the day I played Hideout Golf Club it rained most of the day. Here I had gone to the desert southwest to hopefully play golf on beautiful sunny fall days and I ended up with rainy weather much like western Oregon.

Hole 1 371/352/312 Par 4

The first hole starts on a hill well above the fairway.

Hideout01Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

With an approach from an undulating fairway.

Hideout01Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 2 558/501/475 Par 5

The second hole tee shot faces a narrowing of the fairway and a creek crossing the fairway in the area of the landing zone for many drives.

Hideout02Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Looking across the creek (some of its far bank appears at the bottom of the photo) to the second green.

Hideout02Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The second green has considerable undulation as do all the the greens at the Hideout. The pin position was on an upper ledge on the right side of the green.

Hideout02Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the green back down the second hole.

Hideout02FromGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 3 168/138/123

Playing right on the third is safer than flirting with going down the hill on the left and the ball will be kicked onto the green toward the flag stick.

Hideout03Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 4 390/357/326 Par 4

The fourth is a short dogleg right with a severe valley between the fairway shown and the green. It is concievable that one could risk going for the green here.

Hideout04Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The valley to carry with the approach to the 4th green. It appears quite deep even though the camera flattens it out a bit. Edit: I happened to look on Forrest's website and found out that there used to be a stock pond in the depression.

Hideout04Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Looking back from the 4th green.

Hideout04FromGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 5 375/308/275

For equal opportunity, the fifth is a short dogleg left again with the possibility of going for the green.

Hideout05Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

My lefty fade didn't fade enough to get me in good position, but left me with this short pitch.

Hideout05Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 6 415/356/331 Par 4

The sixth is a little longer par four where a stright tee shot over the vegetation in the foreground can easily find the middle of the fairway in front of the green.

Hideout06Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The result of such a tee shot gives you this look at the green.

Hideout06Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 7 172/162/138 Par 3

The seventh plays up hill to a green behind a little rise that makes you think the green may slope to the back until you get there and find it actually doesn't.

Hideout07Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 8 402/371/341 Par 4

The eigth must be the most controversial hole on the course. Although I didn't test it, any drive to the left half of the fairway appears that it will run down a very steep slope into the hazard below. The only way of holding up the ball would appear to be to maintain rough tall enough to constantly cause lost balls. I chose to hit to the small flattish target area on the right side of the fairway before the fairway heads down a steep hill to the creek fronted green.

Hideout08Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

This is the approach down the hill to the green.

Hideout08Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

A closer look at the eigth green.

Hideout08Green by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 9 581/555/504 Par 5

The ninth is an interesting par 5 turning right and then back to the left again presenting three distinctly different looking shots. This is the tee shot to get into position to play slightly down hill to the right.

Hideout09Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Where you will see the hole turning left again.

Hideout09Second by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

To a three tiered green set against the hillside.

Hideout09Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 10 400/358/318 Par 4

Ten is a dogleg right around a large tree on the corner. This is the view from the tee. I got quite a break as I chose driver here an boomed a long straight one that hit the trunk of the small evergreen on the other side of the fairway that can be seen between the yellow leafed tree on the left and the big green on the corner of the dogleg. The ball bounded back ...

Hideout10Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

to the center of the fairway for this approach.

Hideout10Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 11 180/167/135 Par 3

Eleven is a par three with distinct left and right tiers to the green. You don't want to be on the wrong side (as I was).

Hideout11Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 12 360/326/298 Par 4

Twelve is very narrow and short. It appears to want you to play off the hill on the left and let the ball run back into the fairway. I instead chose a 4 iron and hit my drive to the position I had picked out from the tee ...

Hideout12Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Leaving me with this approach.

Hideout12Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 13 540/523/462 Par 5

This par 5 is constrained on the right by a water hazard that crosses the fairway just beyond halfway. The left has a slope that will feed the ball down to the fairway.

Hideout13Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The hole is reachable in two as it plays from an elevated tee and plays generally downhill. This is the approach left after a good drive.

Hideout13Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 14 515/490/448 Par 5

Consecutive par fives. This one can be reached in two from a good angle if you can work the ball around the corner formed by the trees on the left.

Hideout14Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Being unable to work the ball around the corner leaves this longer approach over bunkers.

Hideout14Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 15 290/280/239 Par 4

A very short par 4 with a blind drive to ...

Hideout15Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

a green surrounded by trouble.

Hideout15Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 16 405/374/341 Par 4

This is the uphill hole I posted about earlier. Drive to a wide fairway.

Hideout16Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

And approach to a skyline green.

Hideout16Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 17 181/167/150 Par 3

After playing up 16 you play down 17 and 18. 17 is a par 3 with a large green.

Hideout17Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Hole 18 475/438/391 Par 4

The course finishes with the only long par 4, which is shortened considerably by the elevation and its downhill run. My 5 wood off the tee travelled 280 yards. I account for 50 of those yards due to the downhill run. Edit: Matt Ward wants you all to know that lighter color on the left side of the fairway is where the stream juts in and is a hidden hazard. I guess he didn't hit his drive as straight down the center as I did.

Hideout18Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

The approach is to a green fronted by an artificial pond. To my tastes, simply using the stream as a hazard in front of the green would have been enough.

Hideout18Approach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[John Kavanaugh]

Forrest,

Congrats on the acorn..The course looks fun.

[Garland Bayley]

The course is indeed fun. It would take many rounds to explore most of the shot options.

[Bill_McBride]

There are a lot of steep sidehill holes! Did any have counter slopes (i.e. left to right slope on a dogleg left)?

#16, beautiful skyline green.    Was the climb up as steep as it looks in the photo?  

What else is in close proximity?  One of the Engh courses?  That looks like a fun destination.  How was the nightlife in Monticello?

[Garland Bayley]

There are a lot of steep sidehill holes! Did any have counter slopes (i.e. left to right slope on a dogleg left)?

#16, beautiful skyline green.    Was the climb up as steep as it looks in the photo?  

What else is in close proximity?  One of the Engh courses?  That looks like a fun destination.  How was the nightlife in Monticello?

The only one I think qualifies for counter slopes is 13.
The climb in the fairway did not seem steep to me. The climbs to tees for #3 and #11 were severe!

What is your definition of close proximity? I believe there is an Engh in Grand Junction, CO. Spann's Pinon Hills in Farmington, NM is probably about the same distance, maybe 100 miles, but probably more.

The close proximity to Monticello is Canyonlands NP, where the hiking in the needles is fabulous. But that is still 60 miles.

Night life? Don't know, didn't sample any. Probably the usual small western town whiskey joint. Wait a minute, this is Utah. Can't be any night life in Utah, Nevada sucks it all out.

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, There's a Press Maxwell museum piece nearby in Cortez Co. named Conquistador. And, a very interesting design in Moab Utah. Each about an hour away from Monticello.

Garland, That's Ken Dye's Pinon Hills. Baxter did the back nine at Riverview in Kirtland NM. next door to Farmington. As well as Black Mesa and Marty Sanchez over nearer to Santa Fe.

Forrest's Hideout is alot of fun to play. And the price cannot be beat.

[Garland Bayley]

And if you let your grey whiskers grow, they mistake you for the over 60 crowd and charge you only $19 for 18.

[Matt_Ward]

Garland:

I've played The Hideout and enjoyed the pictures you provided. Hole #4 and #16 are two superb plays indeed, to name just two.

One other thing -- on the 18th you need to mention the creek that juts in from the left side. From the back tee one doesn't see it that easily.

Can you describe the qualities of the turf on the greens?

When I was last there they had a few issues to resolve.

Thanks ...

[Garland Bayley]

When there were sharp edged tiers on the greens, such as the three tiered 9th, the grass was dead on the crest of the tier and down the steep slope. I only remember two greens having this problem.

Interestingly it was the same problem I saw at the Links of ND.

[Bill_McBride]

And if you let your grey whiskers grow, they mistake you for the over 60 crowd and charge you only $19 for 18.

Careful there, you're getting personal!  

[Forrest Richardson]

Garland has "nightlife" well defined in Monticello. Having said this, I managed many good meals at the Ranch Cookhouse (beer and wine I believe.) And there is a state liquor store, but you have to search for it and get there before 5pm.

Too bad it was a drizzly day. Some photos I was sent a month ago looked much better...brighter. (Our website has a good course tour.)

Re: No. 8, yes it was controversial even when we built it. The entire point of The Hideout is to be interesting and get people to want to play it again. Controversy often assists that — although I am never happy when it gets in the way of play and fun. My take on No. 8 is that locals have mastered it...but even they occasionally try and take advantage of the slope to reach a short wedge approach. This can lead to disaster. Visitors are perplexed at how to negotiate the fairway and slope, but that is part of the puzzle.

[Forrest Richardson]

...Rergarding the "artificial" pond fronting the finishing hole...

First, the pond is formed by a natural creek bed that has been there for roughly 5 million years. Secondly, the ponding is formed by the nearby roadway that serves the village of small cabins that will be built in the woods. The pond and stone wall are flood controls aspect that really cannot be avoided in this case.

Regardless. I think the larger area of the pond (a wetlands really) gives the golfer a better chance to see the hazard than if it were a narrow stream/creek running below the green. I do not like to hide water if avoidable.

[Matt_Ward]

Forrest:

The key w the 8th hole is not to get to bold with the tee shot. One can lay back and still have a very manageable shot into the hole. The further you go the greater the control is required. Sometimes people want to max out things and don't realize the risk that entails.

Frankly, if there's any weakness w The Hideout I see it with the first three holes. When you step on the tee of the 4th the game really starts.

[Garland Bayley]

...Visitors are perplexed at how to negotiate the fairway and slope, but that is part of the puzzle.

As a visitor, I guess I was not that perplexed as I hit my 5 wood to the area I apparently correctly chose on the right side of the fairway and then hit a 9 iron to 6 to 8 feet, but missed the putt.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Frankly, if there's any weakness w The Hideout I see it with the first three holes. When you step on the tee of the 4th the game really starts.

I don't think that is to say that all the rest are better than the first three. However, 4!, 5, 7, 8?, 9, 12, 13, 15?, 16!, 17, & 18 are at least more interesting if not better.

[Jim Franklin]

Who's the lefty?

[Garland Bayley]

Who's the lefty?

I assume you are referring to the picture on the third tee where I had taken out my club and teed up before I decided I had better take a moment and let my heart slow down after the steep climb at over 7000 feet in elevation.

So the lefty would be me.

[Forrest Richardson]

Next time Matt W. is there I have plans to get someone to slip him a Cayman ball!  

[Garland Bayley]

Next time Matt W. is there I have plans to get someone to slip him a Cayman ball!  

I guess this would be a good place to put total yardage.
6758/5865/5657 at over 7000 feet the blues and the whites are too short.

[Bill_McBride]

Next time Matt W. is there I have plans to get someone to slip him a Cayman ball!  

I guess this would be a good place to put total yardage.
6758/5865/5657 at over 7000 feet the blues and the whites are too short.

Completely OT, but has anybody else noticed how the whites these days are sub-6000 or right at 6000, and sometimes there's a big gap back to the next set of tees?  I thoroughly agree with the concept of playing the right tees, but something around 6400-6500 suits me best and you don't see a set of tees at that length too often.

[D_Malley]

this looks like a course that plays alot tougher than the yardage.  which i think is great, and no one is building them like this anymore.  the general public loves a place that has alot of classsic looks but plays only about 6000yrds, which at elevation is probably about right for this place.  congrats to forrest for bucking the trend and creating a golf course that the majority of players can enjoy.

[Garland Bayley]

If I were to play it again, I would select a variety of tees to play from. Sometimes I would choose the championship tee such as on 13. The difference between the championship and the blues is 900 yards, whereas the difference between the whites and blues is only 200 yards. At least that is what the scorecard says. My inclination from playing there is that the scorecard could be wrong on that.

[Forrest Richardson]

I do not get to concerned over scorecard published yardages. I like Garland's theory of selecting the best tees and going from there. I disagree that the 6500 yards is too short at 7,000 feet. There are plenty of hazards — but only 15 bunkers! — to keep order in the court.

[Garland Bayley]

...I like Garland's theory of selecting the best tees and going from there. ...

Is there a way to get a course rating and slope when doing that so that the score can be posted? I have not posted in the past when I mixed the tees.

[Tom Huckaby]

Garland - you COULD post a score using mixed tees - holes are rated individually from each tee more than 25 yards apart - but you'd need access to the hole-by-hole data and then be able to calculate the totals, and typically only the associations doing the ratings have the data.  So the answer is yes and no.   That is, you could but you can't.