Less-Known Redans

[Jimmy Muratt]

Another great and very natural Redan is the 16th at the Kingsley Club.  Mike DeVries did a great job building the green into the side of a hillside and you can use the hillside on the right as a kicker onto the green.  

[Robert Emmons]

How about Country Club of Fairfield's redan

[Tom_Doak]

Pete Dye built a bunch of Redan holes in the late 1980's after getting back to North Berwick a couple of times.  There is one at Arizona State's course, the 14th at Kiawah (Ocean), and there's even one in the infield of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway -- the oddest setting for a Redan.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Sleepy Hollow #7, Southampton #7, North Shore #9, Piping Rock #3, Sands Point #2

[Tom Roewer]

Mountain Lake has a very interesting Redan, #11.  It features a close to 100 foot elevation drop with a steep front prior to the green surface and a huge right to left drop from fringe to fringe.  The restored left bunker sits deep below the putting surface with barely a glimpse of the flag . This green also seems much smaller than it really is.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Tom,

I agree with you at Mountain Lake's Redan.  It's sometimes criticized for it's downhill nature but I think that's what makes it unique.  And, the back right bunker is still visually hidden from the tee.  

I think it's a great example and unique in the world of Redans.

[SPDB]

Tom -
I know its downhill and its a pretty good redan, but a "100 foot elevation drop"?? Come on.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

I agree, with a 100 foot drop, the hole ceases to function as a redan.

I always felt that the redan at Yale suffered from the differential in elevation.

RMD,

The Redan at Piping Rock isn't Lessor Known, it's one of the best.

[Jim Thompson]

This one ain't no cake walk ...

[Jimmy Muratt]

Mountain Lake's Redan is downhill, but nowhere near a 100 ft. drop.  It's perhaps 20-30 feet downhill.  Mike Sweeney posted a good picture of the hole in his "In my Opinion" writeup.  Despite being slightly downhill, the hole does still play like a Redan, balls don't just hit and stop.  It's hole #11, here is the link with the picture:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/mountainlake.html

[SPDB]

Pat - I wasn't talking about the quality of the hole, I was, as Jimmy Muratt alluded to, questioning the elevation change. The only 100 foot drop that can be found in the area is from the top of the Bok Tower.

It's a pretty good hole, and the downhill nature makes it play very different - in fact, downhill redans might be more difficult than uphill/slight uphill ones, because the ball will often run off the back.

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

Which would you say is more difficult, the uphill redan at Piping Rock or the downhill redan at Yale ?

[SPDB]

Pat -
If playing conditions are equivalent (both firm and fast), I think they are comparable for the reason I stated above. I prefer the uphill variety as at PRC, particularly because of its fidelity to the 15th at NBGC. I was just making an observation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

I think the 3rd at PRC is one of CBM's or SR's best.
I don't know how it flies under the radar.

With F&F, it's very difficult.

[SPDB]

Patrick -
I don't think it flies under the radar. Neither do you (isn't that what  you said earlier in the thread??). Its one of a handful of holes that sparked an interest for me in CBM/SR.

How do you think Yale would play under F&F conditions?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

#3 at PRC is my metro NYC favorite Redan.  Unfortunately, it does tend to fly under the radar.  Though NIE, the Links might have had one of the best. Tha was according to an old Cherry Valley member who had belonged to Links, RHC, GCGC, PRC, and acouple of others at times.  OT, but he thought #13 at Cherry Valley was the coolest par 3 that he used to play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

I think Yale would play easier than # 3 at Piping Rock because there's but one way to play Yale from its elevated tee.
It's been my limited experience that a more lofted shot fares far better than a shot with a low trajectory when trying to hit a green, especially one that's F&F and pitched, where the putting surface isn't visible from the tee.

I don't think # 3 at PRC should be under the radar, but, few mention it when discussing Redans.  It's probably a closer replica of North Berwick's than NGLA's.

[Jimmy Muratt]

In my opinion, #3 at Piping Rock and #4 at NGLA are in a class by themselves as far as Redans go.  I think #3 at Piping is even more visually intimidating as the extremely deep front left bunker demands your respect.  

[Mike_Cirba]

One that I think works pretty well, even if quite a bit downhill, is the 17th at Mid Ocean.   Of course, that might be because I was walking around stunned at how good 15 and 16 were and coming out again to the ocean views is just a glorious spot to be.

Yeaman's Hall also has a pretty good one, although the one at the 2nd at Fishers Island is not among the best of the originals.  In that case, however, it's just a slight blip before playing one of the most incredible stretches of golf on the planet for the next 9 or 10 holes.

Looking forward to seeing one tomorrow at Tallgrass.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

How can a downhill Redan, especially a significantly downhill Redan work well ?

It's impossible to hit the ball well short and have it run up and around the shoulder of the green/approach.

And, the fronting defenses are rendered virtually absent.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

It can work in the case I mentioned because the turf was firm, and the steeply downhill/sidehill cant does propel balls forward and sideways, particularly with the strong following wind that I played in.  

Also, the green itself is delightfully shaped, with a strong shoulder on the right heaving shots down the length of the green to the left.

I do agree that the downhill one at Yale doesn't offer the same variation in approach.

[George_Bahto]

Pat the downhill Rev Redan at Sleepy works perfectly - short play feeds right into the green .... at the right speed, of course ..... just a big speed putt-type play

[Mike_Cirba]

Pat the downhill Rev Redan at Sleepy works perfectly - short play feeds right into the green .... at the right speed, of course ..... just a big speed putt-type play

George,

Fully agreed, as does the 11th at Los Angeles CC.  

I'm not sure I understand Patrick's argument that a downhill shot is by nature one that can't use the existing terrain to run out fully?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

How can you understand it at Yale, but, not elsewhere ?  

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike Cirba,

How can you understand it at Yale, but, not elsewhere ?  

Patrick,

Landforms. (degree of downhill/sidehill cant in the landing areas)  

Yale's is flattish.   Mid Ocean, and the others I mentioned, are anything but.