[Let the debate begin ...
I'm jonesing to see his critical review and intellectual rigor in criticizing this "from scratch" genius. But I wouldn't/won't hold my breath for it.....so much hot air, so little time, for reality. Any over/under on his posted critique?
Matt
The caddie made no difference whatsoever in the golf course. I actually tried to educate the poor chap about archtecture and how players other than he might play the course, so don't go there.
I don't think Shadow Creek fits into the "Top 100 in the USA" either, not architecturally at least. It is a top 100 experience if you like that sort of isolation, pampering and the like, I'm not into being pampered.
My opinion is my opinion and I should know better than to criticize certain places in the "Honest and Frank Discussion of Golf COurse Architecture" that goes on here 24/7/365. But I willnot allow anoyone to say that "I cried and took my marbles home to play".
Bayonne can be thought of as a cousin to Shadow Creek.
I think it likely that I will always think there is some amateurish shaping of greens in places, I don't think the routing is all that special/unique(?) and generally creating on a blank slate at some mega-cost is to me I suppose, a nice thing, but it doesn't merit any special consideration because of someone's desire to spend to build.
Maybe create a category for clean slate terraformed courses?
And my Dear Steven
I'll personally write for you a review of Bayonne giving you my hole by hole opinion of the course. It will cost you $100 a word.
Let me know when you are ready and I will write it.
Your comments serve no useful purpose except to disparage,insult and further expose your own biases which we all know too well already. 1,000 word minimum up front.
Completely Off-Topic threads contribute more to the overall knowledge of members this board than comments such as yours filled with such vitriol.
Bill (neither loved nor hated),
Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, as is everyone, but it is you who invites criticism with your periodic, yet continual debasing of C&C, your constant disparagement of a course (Mountain Ridge) that you plainly HAVEN"T EVEN PLAYED post a full & through restoration and their hiring one of the industry's best young greenskeepers. You rave about things Trump and call yourself an "expert" on most things golf-related, but in fact, you seldom back much up true critical analysis, (i.e where was your initial mention of forced carries, lack of safe lay-up ares, long walks, etc..). Your biases are on far greater display here than mine.
You offerred, earlier in this thread, to debate Bayonne out in public, but now, of course, you couch it in silly "I'll charge you blah.blah.." As usual, you've played it once (I'm near sure), and now you are an expert on it.
My exposing of your callow analytical abilities is hardly vitriolic, it's no more than revealing you for your "less than sturdy" architectual intellect and predilection to criticize without adding detail and analysis. If I was to be really mean-spirited, I'd focus the discussion on seliing reviews and course access, etc...
Stop being a little whiner and tell us all why Bayonne isn't worthy and why you possess the ability and intellect to rightfully dissect it. I put my 1000 word praise up...why don't you do the same and tell us why I'm wrong instead of complaining and sniping. Better yet, play it multiple times and tell me you don't find fun there. Like Pat Mucci and I say, it's usually the desire to re-tee it up on #1 that seperates the really good from the mediocre. BGC has that, TN doesn't but you can't tell the difference.