Would You Prefer No. 55 or No. 81?

[Padraig Dooley]

I'm just browsing through the november issue of Golf Monthly. It has a supplement with the top 120 courses in Britain and Ireland.

If you were given the choice of playing no. 55 or no. 81, which one would you play?

They are near neighbours and have a common architect.

I will reveal the courses later on today.

[Brian_Ewen]

For those of us that cant wait :

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/top_120_courses/

[Ed Tilley]

As ranking lists go this really is the worst. Not only is Moortown (55) rated significantly above Alwoodley (81), there are apparently 50 courses in these fair isles better than Royal Dornoch!

[Jon Earl]

The worst list ever.

No Addington, no Rye and souless grinds like the London Club making it.

[Padraig Dooley]

I know rankings are arbitrary and debatable at the best of times but surely the raters know a small bit about golf.

I don't think I've met anybody who thinks Moortown (55) is better than Alwoodley (81).

There are quite a few discrepancies, here are a few examples.

Old Head (18) ahead of Pormarnock (36)
Doonbeg (47) anead of County Louth (68) and The Island (92)

I wonder if anybody thinks if this is a reasonable list?

[Ed Tilley]

How can someone possibly rate Aberdovey as a better course than Royal Dornoch. Now, don't get me wrong, I liked Aberdovey - and the town is wonderful, but on what possible criteria is it superior to Dornoch? It makes a mockery of the whole process. And don't even get me started on Killarney being above Dornoch too

I assume that Rye and Swinley Forest were excluded due to being members only but why therefore is Loch Lomond included?

[Mark Pearce]

No doubt this is a seriously odd list.  It will no doubt promote lots of debate, though, which is about as much good as lists like this can ever do.

[michael j fay]

This list is ludicrous.

Portrush at # 17. There are not four better courses in the British Isle better than Portrush, Gleneagles is not one of them.

The K Club at # 21 is a joke. It isn't in the top 20 in The Irish Republic.

Royal Dornoch At # 51 is an insult to all golfers. Old Head at 33 places in front is a bad joke.

Apparently, the rankings were done by the blind or the insane.

[Kevin Pallier]

I was a panellist for Golf Monthly in their 2004 program. When I saw their final consolidated list come out with Royal Dornoch at close to 60 I wrote to the magazine the express my dismay.

Given a criteria of:
Quality of test and design
Visual appeal and enjoyment
Fairness and presentation - condition
Ambience/history
- I was told there are at least 50 odd courses better than it...

Needless to say - I didn't request to participate in their most recent program.

[ed_getka]

Just for the sake of argument, what are the shortcomings of Dornoch that could cause is to be anywhere outside the top 10? It was my personal favorite of the small sampling I saw on my trip, but I am just curious what others would point out if asked to nitpick?
   I thought #7 was a rather uninteresting longish par 4 up on higher land that was relatively flat, and that green was one of the less interesting. Of course, I have only played 2 rounds at Dornoch, so I easily could have missed a lot.

[michael j fay]

Ed:

The hole that you refer to is the seventh at Dornoch. I agree that it may be the one weaker hole.

The problem is that many of the courses that precede it on the list have numerous uninteresting holes. For sheer memorability the Turnberry course may exceed Dornoch but that is only one factor.

This list smacks of a marketing scheme. The K Club is not in the top 80 in the UK, neither is Tralee, Old Head or many others.

[Mike Policano]

I have only played a dozen courses on the list.  But I wouldn't put the K Club ahead of Sunningdale Old, New, Portmarnock or Wentworth West.

I also wouldn't put Wentworth West ahead of Portmarnock and Sunningdale New.  And Wentworth East?  I read the description. Must not be the same course I played a couple of times. I played Wentworth a number of times and I chose Wentworth Edinburgh over the East 10 out of 10 times.  So how does East wind up 10 spots higher?  And notwithstanding I had a hole in one on Wentworth Edinburgh, I would favor the Island Club over it.

I look forward to hearing what Mark Rowlinson and Darren K. have to say.  

[Gary Slatter]

I love this gca, most fun a person my age can have with their spikes off!  GOLF MONTHLY list is very unusual and if they wanted to create a dialoque they have. I like Ailsa (but it should be around 20) but the K-Club at 21st is a smurfit joke, Old Head at 18 and Doonbeg at 47 are also insults to many far better courses.  But lists are always made to cause "conversation".  I'd switch Kingsbarns and Ailsa, and put Ballybunion right after County Down, but my wife would.........

[Mark Chaplin]

Ed - Maybe Swinley and Rye didn't invite the reviewers onto the property and Loch Lomond, the Wisley and The London Club welcomed them in with open arms.

As for the proliferation of American style courses - don't get me wrong there's a place in the game for every type of layout - I can think of a couple of better places than the London Club within 15 miles that will never make it onto the rankings, Wilderness and Tandridge are both relatively unknown gems.

The Wisley is always immaculately prepared but in my view the holes blend into one. Seven places behind Wisley in a line are Royal Cinque Ports, West Sussex, Alwoodley and West Lancs. They might be a few miles apart but any visitor to England who just played this 4 courses would have an absolute ball and pay less than the fee for a round at the K Club.

[Jack_Marr]

Ed:

The hole that you refer to is the seventh at Dornoch. I agree that it may be the one weaker hole.

The problem is that many of the courses that precede it on the list have numerous uninteresting holes. For sheer memorability the Turnberry course may exceed Dornoch but that is only one factor.

This list smacks of a marketing scheme. The K Club is not in the top 80 in the UK, neither is Tralee, Old Head or many others.

No, and one of the reasons is that it's not in the U.K. Nor is Tralee or Old Head.

[Matt_Ward]

Sean said, "Panelists need to be more experienced."

Your candor and analysis is spot on.

There are people who play down the necessity for a wide personal sampling of different courses. Failure to see the widest array of courses will usually mean the same candidates emerging in the same or relatively same positions.

It's something that happens on this side of the pond too.

[Rick Shefchik]

Why, oh, why won't the independently wealthy among us drop their other pursuits and get down to the business of playing hundreds of individual golf courses each year, and then rating them properly?

This appalling situation cannot be allowed to continue...

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Mike, I'm flattered that you seek my opinion.  I have not been a part of any ranking panel and have no idea how such a panel might be asked to rank courses and how their opinions might be translated into votes for or against one course as against another.  I can offer no insight into why Golf Monthly's rankings should be significantly different from Golf World's.  All I can say is that both league tables will have many critics and that one man's meat is another man's poison.  I happened to attend a dinner at Alwoodley last night and spoke with an Alwoodley member who said that Old Head was the greatest course on earth.  He has played Cypress Point, Royal Melbourne, Augusta National, Crystal Downs, Pasatiempo that I know of overseas and all the top UK courses such as TOC, Muirfield etc.  Some fancy blondes, others brunettes, I suppose.  At my age Painswick is about the best I can aspire to, which is rather like fancying a 70-year old of indeterminate sex but huge character.  As long as he/she doesn't smoke all over me I'll be satisfied.  Will I see you in NY next week?  I hope so.