Adding to Reverse Old Course Trip

[Tom_Doak]

I am going to play at St. Andrews with two of my associates on the 29th and 31st.

Before that, we will arrive in Edinburgh on the morning of the 26th to spend a couple of days going over bunker work at The Renaissance Club at Archerfield.  If anyone wants a tour on the afternoon of the 26th or on the 27th -- though I know many of you already have full golf calendars -- that would be a good time for a tour of the new course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

That's a generous offer to all those who tune in to GCA.com.

Thanks

[Bill_McBride]

Tom, will you be back at Archerfield on Saturday or Sunday, 3/31 or 4/1?  A group of us have the Muirfield outing on 3/27 and then hot foot it to St Andrews for the following day at TOC.

Thanks, appreciate your offer.

[lesueur]

Tom,
I'm based in Edinburgh and would love a tour. Afternoon of the 26th would be best for me so let me know the time and I'll be there.
Thanks,
Richard.

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:  We are on different days than you for the Old Course event ... we are playing 3/29 and 3/31, so the only way we could meet your schedule would be if we skipped out on the New Course tee time for April 1st.  We might do that, but I am not ready to commit to that right now.

So, ideally, you could make it on the afternoon of the 26th.  Or just skip over from the 6th tee at Muirfield ... it's only about 100 yards to our tenth tee!

[Bill_McBride]

Whoops, didn't catch your different schedule.  We'll work something out.  It apparently gets dark later there than I anticipated, the ladies at the links trust are saying that 3:30 tee times will finish.

I'm not sure the caddies at Muirfield would appreciate the field trip, but that's cool Archerfield is so close!  There will be quite a concentration of great golf in East Lothian......already is, but even better.

[peter_p]

Tom,
I will be a pleasure to walk around Archerfield on the 26th or 27th. Are there any barbed wire fences under which we have to roll?

[James Bennett]

This trip is getting better and better.

James B

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,
I will be a pleasure to walk around Archerfield on the 26th or 27th. Are there any barbed wire fences under which we have to roll?

There is actually an advertisement for Archerfield in this months MetGolfer so I would assume they are accomadating guest. It says to visit the website or call 01620 850542.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Tom - please count me in, whenever! If you're up for a visit to Dunbar, let me know as well - I'd be delighted to host you (and/or a few others) around that time. I think I should have a few annual leave days to take before the end of March...

Cheers,
Darren

[Darren_Kilfara]

There is actually an advertisement for Archerfield in this months MetGolfer so I would assume they are accomadating guest. It says to visit the website or call 01620 850542.

Actually, that's probably an advert for the first two courses at Archerfield (which aren't affiliated with Tom's Renaissance Club).

[Tom_Doak]

Darren:

I don't think I will be able to take you up on a visit to Dunbar this trip; when we aren't at Archerfield or St. Andrews I plan to make return visits to the holes which Mr. Macdonald felt noteworthy at Scotscraig, Leven, Prestwick, North Berwick, and maybe Brancaster if we have time.

Don Placek and I did sneak out to walk Dunbar on a nice sunny evening this fall.  It was tricky trying to walk the course when it was full of golfers ... it's even tighter than I remembered in some areas, to the point that we had a hard time finding places to step out of people's way.  I did not remember the cool par-5 at the end of the course; can't recall right now if that was #9 or #10.

[Marty Bonnar]

Tom,
I'd love to see the Renaissance with you. Please count me in!

I'm also rather handy for Leven and Scotscraig. Happy to arrange 'Members Guest' fees at Leven if you require....!

cheers,
FBD.

[Tom_Doak]

Martin:

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it depending how some other things go.  But in the meantime, you are the perfect person to ask this question (even if you may have to look up the answer).  

C.B. Macdonald referenced the 7th and 9th holes at Leven as models for his ideal course in 1906.  Was that still when Leven and Lundin Links were a single course with clubhouses at opposite ends, so the holes he was referring to are the 16th and 18th at Lundin Links today?  Or had the course already been split up?  I can probably figure it out after walking the course, having some idea what sort of green complex I'm looking for, but if you can save me some homework I'd be much obliged.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Darren:

I don't think I will be able to take you up on a visit to Dunbar this trip; when we aren't at Archerfield or St. Andrews I plan to make return visits to the holes which Mr. Macdonald felt noteworthy at Scotscraig, Leven, Prestwick, North Berwick, and maybe Brancaster if we have time.

Don Placek and I did sneak out to walk Dunbar on a nice sunny evening this fall.  It was tricky trying to walk the course when it was full of golfers ... it's even tighter than I remembered in some areas, to the point that we had a hard time finding places to step out of people's way.  I did not remember the cool par-5 at the end of the course; can't recall right now if that was #9 or #10.

Some other time, maybe! The par-5 ninth is indeed one of the class holes at Dunbar; I really like the par-4 11th as well, if I was trying to pick my top few holes out here. I suppose what I really like about Dunbar is that even its worst holes are at least OK, and there's something rather interesting about most of them. (I guess there's a lot to be said for a course at which one can't easily identify a least favorite hole; I'd nominate the 15th as my candidate, but not because it's a bad hole, but rather because I can't remember another relatively harmless 330-yard par 4 that has given me such grief!) Perhaps that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement, but it certainly makes for a very good members' course, and I'm very pleased to be here...

Cheers,
Darren

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks, Sean, I look forward to seeing it again.

[paul cowley]

Darren....Dunbar made a very favorable impression on me [I have only played it once], but it probably has been more influential than any other course that has inspired me in my occasional forays in the construction of new 'follies' or incorporating hard scape elements into the design of new golf holes......like slamming greens against walls or ruins and the like.
I would very much like to return.

[paul cowley]

TomD ....a little homework eh?

Well, along with your study of the holes, try to get the town center to have a little more of a west to southwest orientation than N Berwicks.....I think the idea you seem to be contemplating is a grand one and incredibly appropriate if you can get it and the course routing to work with the land available.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, will you be there at the end of April. I am some others who would be interested in Archerfield will be in Scotland. cheers Tiger

[Marty Bonnar]

Tom,
what Sean said...

Here's a couple of aides d'homework for you.

Lundie 16


Lundie 18



cheers,
FBD.

[Tom_Doak]

I must say it's cool to see those photos and see the shared fairway of the 1st and 18th holes at Lundin Links, which was not created to be a cool design but was just the most reasonable solution for that ground.

I can't tell the scale of the two holes but it appears that the 16th has the diagonal burn across it short of the landing area and the hummocks to the left of the green, to which Macdonald referred in his notes in the 1906 article.  It's possible the tee moved, he wasn't that specific about the angles involved.  Strangely, Macdonald said he liked the diagonal burn but he never built such a feature on any of his courses that I can think of ... and I don't know if we will, since it would be difficult to sell a "burn" winding its way to the top of a 100-foot cliff!  But maybe on the holes east of the dune ...

[Bill_McBride]

Tom,
what Sean said...

Here's a couple of aides d'homework for you.

Lundie 16


Lundie 18

Martin, what do the red X's indicate - best tee shot?  How far is the carry across the burn at the short end?  The diagonal hazard is certainly part of the MacDonald theme.

Do you have a similar photo of the hole at Leven that was the inspiration for #17 at NGLA?  Or is that hole now at Lundin? I will be playing Lundin on March 31st but may have to go walk the "Leven hole" if it's still on that course.

Thanks,
Uncle Bill

[Sean Walsh]

Tom,

Thanks for the invite.  Like some others here I may be able to make on the Afternoon of the sixteenth.  I'll be driving from St Andrews and may have a seat or two available (Richard, Martin?).

I was in the Archerfield area a few weeks ago and took a detour into the site.  Regrettably couldn't see too much of the course from the road.  The one thing I would say is that the clubhouse is done in a design sympathetic to the old manor house.

[SPDB]

Bill:  We are on different days than you for the Old Course event ... we are playing 3/29 and 3/31, so the only way we could meet your schedule would be if we skipped out on the New Course tee time for April 1st.  We might do that, but I am not ready to commit to that right now.

Tom - Please don't do that! Remember that CB Mac included the 8th at the New as one of his ideal 18, so it might be good fieldstudy.

I love the New!