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Eric Olsen

Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« on: October 20, 2006, 04:33:29 PM »
A short memo has been written to Bandon Dunes staff, which they can share with the public, indicating that the 4th course will be a 21st Century CB MacDonald course built by Doak/Urbina, with a 2010 opening date.  

Aaron Katz

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 04:45:49 PM »
What is a C.B. MacDonald course?

Eric Olsen

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 04:48:11 PM »
My brother just made tee times for Thanksgiving, and the staff volunteered the information. I have nothing further to add to what I have posted.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 04:50:04 PM »
Not sure anyone outside of Renaissance/Bandon saw that one coming.

Should the name be BGLA?

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 04:52:17 PM »
Very interesting news, so I wonder if they'll be doing all of the MacDonald/Raynor template holes.....  or I remember hearing that Mike Keiser had thoughts of doing a course reminiscent of "Lido".  

Also, where exactly is the property for the 4th course located?

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 04:55:59 PM »
Not sure anyone outside of Renaissance/Bandon saw that one coming.

Should the name be BGLA?

There were some rumors/speculation that they were going to get it.  Tom had mentioned on here that he had a couple of potential projects in the works that he could't discuss, and some privately speculated that it could be Bandon that was one of those projects.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 05:00:35 PM »
With apologies to women's shoes:  BandoLido

Jimmy Chandler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 06:28:36 PM »
Found this through Google News:

http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-16/1161380687222830.xml&storylist=orlocal

Some excerpts from the article:

Bandon Dunes adds fourth golf course in Oregon
10/20/2006, 2:38 p.m. PT
The Associated Press       

BANDON, Ore. (AP) — The famed Bandon Dunes Golf Resort will add a fourth course, the company announced Friday.

The course will be named Old MacDonald, after legendary golf course designer C.B. MacDonald, and is expected to open in 2010.

Old MacDonald will be to the north and east of Pacific Dunes, one of the resort's three links-style layouts featuring ocean views from the Oregon Coast....

The Bandon design work is being led by Pacific Dunes architect Tom Doak and his design partner Jim Urbina.

"I think I'm not employing Doak and Urbina as architects," said Bandon Dunes owner Mike Keiser. "I'm employing them to design as C.B. MacDonald and Seth Raynor, his apprentice and successor, would build it if they were alive today."

A panel of other architects, including George Bahto, an expert on MacDonald, will work with Doak and Urbina. Bahto is the author of "The Evangelist of Golf," a book about MacDonald's life.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 06:39:00 PM »
Who says we're not having any impact here? ;D
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 06:39:04 PM »
I can't believe it's being called Old MacDonald

Ryan Crago

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2006, 06:51:44 PM »
Does this mean the last days of the Sheep Ranch?

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2006, 07:02:11 PM »
Does this mean the last days of the Sheep Ranch?

I don't think so, Ryan, but I'm not sure.

I'm stoked.  I live in Oregon.  I think this is a great idea.  Keiser you genius!  And I don't want any baby Redans or Biarritzes; we want big, bold template holes that make 12 3-putting tourists angry!

peter_p

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2006, 07:03:37 PM »
Just shorten it to "the farm".

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2006, 07:41:25 PM »
Just shorten it to "the farm".

Ee-i-ee-i-oh.  Oh my!  8)

It sounds great.  The hillsides above the burned gorse should be perfect to pay homage to the hillside holes at NGLA, like #4 Redan, #8 Bottle, #2 Sahara, #3 Alps, #16 Punchbowl and #17 Leven.  If Doak, Urbina et al use the existing terrain like C.B. used the existing terrain at NGLA to layout those template holes, it will be just different enough to be really exciting.  

The flatter area down by #14-15 Pac Dunes would be equally effective for the flatter holes at NLGA.

Terrific that Geo Bahto will be involved.

So we have to wait until 2010?  Yikes.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2006, 07:42:00 PM »
Did anyone else read that release and think, Is it April 1st already?

If not, should be plenty to talk about in the upcoming years. A "panel of architects" almost sounds Crump-like.

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2006, 09:10:52 PM »
I must say that I love the name "Old MacDonald".....  I hope it sticks...  It's a nice change of pace from the "Bandon...this" or "Dunes...that".

I can't wait to see what Doak, Urbina and crew come up with....

Jay Flemma

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2006, 09:51:53 PM »
"Old Macdonald???" :o

What are they gonna rename one of the other courses?  "farmer in the Dell?"  Or maybe "Jingleheimerschmidt?"
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 09:53:01 PM by Jay Flemma »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2006, 10:09:41 PM »
I, too, must say the name sounds lame ::)

how about "The MacDonald" or "The MacDonald Course" or
" MacDonald's Tribute"
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Alex_Wyatt

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2006, 10:19:13 PM »
Tom, If you are building a modern day Lido, I will apologize for everything I said about Sebonack.  Is it so??

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2006, 11:06:55 PM »
This is a joke, right? And the Associated Press bit?

"Old Macdonald" would immediately leap to the top of the list of Worst Golf Course Names Ever Devised.

Of course, "Recycled Paper Greetings" sounds kinda stupid, too.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 01:16:35 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2006, 11:09:09 PM »
Sounds like the Sheep Ranch is safe.  Property to the east of PD #14 & #15 is the probable site.  Must be several hundred acres available out there.  

Bandon has great golf courses but the naming has always been a little creaky!

Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2006, 11:34:04 PM »
"Old MacDonald" is a great name. Blows me away.
I am now going to go into my old Classics of Golf book on CB MacDonald and see what this could mean in terms of architecture. NGLA, Mid-Ocean and Chicago all come to mind and I am curious as to why Mike Keiser would be so interested in MacDonald, other than the obvious link to Chicago Golf Club.

I also assume The Sheep Ranch is safe for the time being.

Great to see Tom Doak and Jim Urbina back in there.

Bandon has been such a positive step for courses in the US and this just emphasizes it. I am going down there again in April and cannot wait to walk around that land if possible.

Mike Erdmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2006, 11:48:02 PM »
More complete information on the course was printed in today's The World newspaper in Coos Bay, OR:

‘Old MacDonald' Fourth course planned at Bandon Dunes

By John Gunther Sports Editor
Friday, October 20, 2006 2:05 PM PDT


The grandfather of golf course architecture in the United States will leave his imprint on the Bandon Dunes Golf Resort.

Though C.B. MacDonald died in 1939, Bandon Dunes owner Mike Keiser plans to revive his spirit in the resort's fourth course, announced to resort employees today and expected to open in 2010.

The course, to be named Old MacDonald, will be the result of a bold and unique concept - a team-driven design process led by Pacific Dunes architect Tom Doak and his design partner Jim Urbina.

“I think I'm not employing Doak and Urbina as architects,” Keiser said. “I'm employing them to design as C.B. MacDonald and Seth Raynor, his apprentice and successor, would build it if they were alive today.”

A panel of other noted architects, including George Bahto, an expert on MacDonald, will work with Doak and Urbina on the project. Bahto is the author of “The Evangelist of Golf,” a book about MacDonald's life.

Old MacDonald will be located to the north and east of Pacific Dunes, which has received the highest ratings to date among the resort's three links-style layouts.

The site is all sand, including one huge, long sand dune and a bit of ocean-front property, though not the extensive ocean vistas of either the Bandon Dunes or Pacific Dunes courses.

“It's a pretty cool site,” said Josh Lesnik, the first general manager at Bandon Dunes and now a president with Kemper Sports Management, which runs the resort.

Lesnik said the site fits well with Keiser's hope of building a course to fit MacDonald's philosophies from a century ago.

MacDonald, who was born at Chicago and studied at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, is credited with opening the first two 18-hole courses in the United States - the Chicago Golf Club in 1892 and Wheaton in 1895. He also was one of the founding members of the U.S. Golf Association.

 
 
His most famous course is the National Golf Links of America in Southampton, N.Y., one of Keiser's favorite courses.

That course, which opened in 1909, is regarded as the best of its era and is ranked in the top 10 courses in the United States by most publications. It also was an inspiration for Keiser when he created Bandon Dunes.

“I always thought in many ways that was my model,” he said, explaining that he believed another course with 18 great holes would prove similarly successful.

The property for Old MacDonald isn't identical to the National Golf Links of America, but is perhaps equally special.

“I like the ocean views and the natural rolling dunes,” said Keiser.

Likewise, the course won't be identical, but will have similar characteristics.

MacDonald and Raynor were known for considering the great golf holes in Scotland when they built their courses, employing similar characteristics - they also took input from other architects. And so at Old MacDonald, golfers likely will find holes similar to the famed Redan Hole at North Berwick and other great holes.

“The concept to the average golfer is I believe the team will pull off something that is fun,” Keiser said.

When Keiser decided on his concept for the new course, Doak was a natural choice as lead architect. He is regarded as one of the top students of architecture in the United States and already was familiar with Bandon Dunes from when he and Urbina designed Pacific Dunes.

“I feel as if I'm hiring C.B. MacDonald myself,” Keiser said. “I trust (Tom) and Jim is fantastic.”

The design board could have as many as 12 members, all of whom will have input.

“This is interpretive,” Keiser said. “It isn't just, ‘Tom do it.' It's, ‘You and Jim, along with George, being C.B. MacDonald.'”

Keiser, Lesnik, Doak and Bahto are scheduled to meet on Halloween at the National Golf Links to begin discussing the makeup of the group.

Because of the nature of the project and because of a new role Keiser has taken, there is no hurry for construction of Old MacDonald.

Keiser, who made his fortune as co-founder of Recycled Paper Greetings, recently took the position of chairman of the board for the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, a post that came with a two-year commitment.

Keiser always has been a hands-on owner, wanting a close look at every phase of planning and construction of the other three courses at Bandon Dunes. He said he didn't want his role at the resort to clash with his position at the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago.

“Knowing Mike and Tom and Jim, they're going to look at a lot of potential routings,” Lesnik said.

The general timeline for Old MacDonald is for design work to be done through 2007, with construction in 2008 and 2009 and the opening in 2010.

Though construction is still a couple of years away, news of the new course is exciting for the employees at Bandon Dunes, said Hank Hickox, general manager at the resort.

“The team here has been anxiously awaiting what we hoped would be an announcement this fall,” Hickox said. “As we tried to do with the first three golf courses, we will give it our very best effort to have them continue the fine traditions that have been established in (the past) seven years.”

Hickox expects demand to be plentiful for the new course.

The resort has grown in terms of numbers of golfers every year and the so-called high season now extends through all or part of eight months from April to November. This summer, Bandon Dunes reached new highs with about 550 full- and part-time employees and about 350 caddies during the summer. Hickox expects the workforce to remain above 400 throughout the winter, though the number of caddies will drop considerably with many away at college.

“There's every reason to believe that the demand will be there,” Hickox said. “There's always a risk associated with new development. We have every confidence that this will be the most exciting golf course yet.”

It also will lead to expansion resort-wide.

“As we build more golf holes, there will be more accommodations, more retail, more food and beverage and more employment opportunities,” Hickox said.

The specific nature and timeline of the expansion hasn't been determined, though one component likely will be an expanded fitness center because the resort has outgrown the original center in the basement of the Bandon Dunes Lodge, Hickox said.

Howard McKee, Keiser's resort planning partner, will work to keep the same principals used to date at the resort when the expansion is completed.

“We like to remain the same place that feels small and personal,” Hickox said. “Mr. McKee has several plans he has been massaging.”
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 11:55:03 PM by Mike_Erdmann »

Jim Nugent

Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2006, 01:22:51 AM »
I think Old MacDonald is a great name.  Most people will remember it forever, and not in a bad way.  Especially if the course is a standout, which I will lay heavy odds on it is.

A little while ago we had a thread on this very topic -- who would design Bandon's 4th course -- and Doak was pretty coy then.  Now we see why.  

Jim Adkisson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon's 4th Course Unveiled
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 01:36:29 AM »
I have to admit that the concept and the name don't make my horse jump out of the gate...but I have faith in Mr. Keiser will do an incredible job with any addition to the Bandon property...I am headed down for 3 days in a couple of weeks and will be interested to partake in Bunker Bar banter regarding the next project...

As we normally play 5 rounds over 2-1/2 days it is already tough to split time as to which course gets short-changed...I hope that by 2010, I will have the capability of making my bi-annual trips last 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 days so that I don't have to only play once at multiple courses.

Hurrah for Mike Keiser!  Oregonian golfers should get down on their knees and give thanks for the pied piper of Oregon Links Golf!

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