[Michael Kennedy]

Any votes for Arbor Links, south of Omaha, NE?  I've only played the course once, but enjoyed it.  It was a steal at $35 + $15 for a caddie.

[JSlonis]

Matt,

When Laurel Creek first opened the members just teed off on the old 8th because of convenience to the original Farmhouse/Clubhouse.  Some would choose to drive out to the actual 1st and play from there.

Since then, the nines have been reversed, so now there is a much more difficult finish.

[Ken Fry]

I like Eagle Watch in Woodstock, GA a lot, though I doubt if many/any outside the immediate area have ever heard of it.

Cherokee Run in Conyers, GA is good in most estimations, though I was not as fond of it as many are.

A.G.,

I remember playing Eagle Watch in the early '90's when it was one of the "big" new courses in the Atlanta scene.  Some good holes here and there, but I never quite got it.

Cherokee Run is a pretty extreme piece of property.  Nice enough course but God help you if you're walking!  Some of the fairway and green complexes that were built up and secured by massive rock walls look wild.

Ken

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

For starters, I'd widen the end of the 18th fairway and/or take out the trees on the left side of that LZ.

I'd mow some of the rough short and long of the water on # 3 to fairway.

On # 15 I'd eliminate the overhanging trees on the right if they're still there, and, if possible, add a back tee to avoid letting the better golfers cut the dogleg, absent the trees.

# 6 is one of my favorite holes.
A great driving and approach hole, especially with a hole cut to the right side of the green.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pat

The fairway has been widened at the end of 18   but the trees remain to the left. The downhill lie for the last 25-40 yards of the fairway still remains making the approach shot to an elevated green difficult.

The rough was removed to the right of the lake on 3 fairway and the fairway extends, although it is very narrow, to almost the creek in front of the cartpath. Now, short hitters don't have to lay up into rough. The previous setup was very unfair to women golfers.

The tree still overhangs on the right on 15. I don't think there is any room to add another tee back in the wetlands. In order to eliminate the danger of cutting the dogleg and having errant tee shots bombard players on 16 green, as can be the case, ownership explored the possibility of redoing 16 and moving the green into the wetlands to the left where it was originally designed to be. This idea was rejected because of cost and/or wetlands remediation concerns.

6 is a great hole regardless of where the pin is located. The trees flanking both sides of the fairway make the drive, as on most holes at Commonwealth, of the utmost accuracy.

The road to the left of 1,2&3 has been eliminated and grassed over.

Seay and Larsen both liked what they saw during their visit and Seay remarked that he forgot how good the course was and it matured nicely.

Imagine how difficult Commonwealth would be if the greens were like Engineers, for example.

Steve

[Greg Clark]

I like Deacon's Lodge as well John.  Played it in June and was pleasantly suprised.  A few very strong holes on the course, and one of my favorite openers.  Nice scenery as well.

He has two courses down here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area -Fossil Creek and Twin Creeks.  The former is the more interesting of 2 pretty unremarkable efforts.

My in-laws in Wisconsin tout The Bog which I believe his group did.  I've never been able to pull myself over there due to better options IMO.  It seems to get mixed reviews on this site.

[Steve Lang]

 

Ya'll don't get out much do ya??  The Bluffs is a very fine Palmer course near StFrancisville, LA, literally right on the Audubon Trail..



The Bluffs at St. Francisville
An Arnold Palmer Signature Golf Course
"a collection of gorgeous, challenging golf holes, perhaps the best of any Palmer design. If any Louisiana course comes close to the ambiance and appeal of a laid-back resort like North Carolina's Pinehurst, it's The Bluffs. Architecturally, there's nothing quite like it anywhere else in America, which makes it worth the journey"  
Ron Whitten, Golf Digest February 2005

Golf Digest 4 Star Award (****)
Golf Club and Lodge 2004

Golf Digest "Places to Play"
Designated in Golf Digest "Places to Play" North American Guide
2000, 2001 and 2002

Golden Links Award
Received "Golden Links Award" Corporate Meetings and Incentives
2000, 2001 and 2002

How Arnold Palmer Crafted the Course
Arnold Palmer was granted complete freedom to route his golf course at The Bluffs through each of the diverse landscapes of the property, and eight separate routings were staked and walked before the best 18 holes were discovered. Only after the most dramatic golf holes were found was the surrounding residential community planned.

Designed for championship play from Grey tees (over 7,100 yards), the Palmer course at The Bluffs has hosted numerous Louisiana State Championships, the Southeastern Conference Golf Championship, United States Senior Challenge, and several other prestigious events since its opening in 1988. The flexible design makes the course equally enjoyable and challenging for average golfers from its other three sets of tees. Our women members particularly enjoy the Pink tees, which allow them sufficient advantage to play similar shots with similar clubs as the men on nearly every hole.

Links of Interest:
Course Layout
Yardage Guide
Scorecard
Stats

@ http://www.thebluffs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

Never played on a Palmer Course that wasn't fun and offered enough risk-reward for the 5-30 handicapper.. like the Palmer Course at La Cantera, 18th green pic below.. (or our 27 hole Palmer Course at WCC with King-General-Deacon 9's)



a quite challenged view of things not to at least give a nod to the "everyman" style of his design group's offerings, they do reflect the man.

[cary lichtenstein]

Bette and I thought Deacon's Lodge was the best Palmer course we had ever played, excellent topography.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

I"m glad to hear about those modifications.

As I said earlier, I like the golf course.

What I liked about the tees on 15 was how they created  them as mini islands in the wetlands, I believe they did the same at # 17.  That's why I thought it was possible to create another back tee on # 15.

I ran into Erik Larsen in Florida a few years ago when he was involved in a project in Boca Raton.  I commented on how much I liked CN and he mentioned that that was his project.

How much of a debate took place with respect to making
# 13 a par 5 from the very back tee ?  It's certainly a very difficult par 4.

TEPaul,

I could watch those wart hogs fly all day long.
They can turn on a dime.
They look to be fun to fly

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pat

Re 13 at Commonwealth

IMO 13 is a 4.5 par.The debate on 13 was interesting. The lower handicappers favored maintaining it as a par 4 from the 440 white tees and 460? from the blues. There wasn't that much discussion about changing it to 5par because the tee shot carry would have been significant for the higher handicappers.The higher handicappers favored keeping it as a 4par but moving the white tee up to 380-400 AND enlarging the green. The eventual compromise was to keep at as a 4par with tees at 400-410 from the whites and 440 from the blues and NOT enlarge the green even though Seay/Larsen said that it could be done very easily. The way back tees remain at 475. From the original white tees, given the lake in front of the small green, it was a very difficult hole for higher handicappers.

The hole remains a 5par for women.

Steve

[Forrest Richardson]

Paul — I recall the uphill trek (No. 11 at Tralee), but the pursuit of the green was interesting. So, I disagree that it is an uninteresting hole. Also, I recall a stone wall guarding the right. It formed a hazard at the approach if you were not in a decent alignment. The hole was brutal, but that can be a good quality for a course to sport occasionally.

http://www.traleegolfclub.com/newgolf/indexmwhite.htm

[TEPaul]

Steve:

That 13th hole at Commonwealth was always really hard for this scratch player because I was just a bit too short for it. Off even a good drive I recall just trying to hit the ball just a bit left of the green and just trying to chip and one putt. #9 could be sort of too long for me too as I guess #18 could be too. Despite all that I was pretty good at doing what I used to call "sneaking up on those long par 4s before they saw me coming."  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

The Bluffs in St Francisville, La

[Sean Leary]

I haven't played it yet, but The Prospector Course at Suncadia in Roslyn WA (near Doak's Tumble Creek) is supposed to be quite good.

[Kevin Pallier]

The Pines at Sanctuary Cove remains one of the better courses on the Gold Coast.

IMO - Tralee was OK - nothing overly great though a solid course all the same.

[Patrick_Mucci]

How many of these golf courses were actually designed by AP ?

[astavrides]

the classic club in palm springs is good.  and i agree that bay creek and aviara are pretty good. pga west palmer's last 5 holes are pretty good.

[Richard Phinney]

Paul — I recall the uphill trek (No. 11 at Tralee), but the pursuit of the green was interesting. So, I disagree that it is an uninteresting hole. Also, I recall a stone wall guarding the right. It formed a hazard at the approach if you were not in a decent alignment. The hole was brutal, but that can be a good quality for a course to sport occasionally.

This hole was "softened" by Donald Steel, making it a little less blind, so it's possible the two of you are not discussing exactly the same hole.  Steel also reduced the severity (craziness) of a few other back nine holes.  From a conversation with Ed Seay I'd say Arnold should get neither the credit (nor the blame) for Tralee.

[Brad Tufts]

I liked Tralee, although the place was overrun with UTenn alums the day I was there...and it was not up to the standard of the West-Coast classics like Ballybunion, Waterville, Rosses Point, Carne, etc...who knows if that is possible anyways..

I also like Mid-South in So. Pines, the artist formerly known as Plantation.  It's not the greatest course by any stretch, but I thought it a bit better than Talamore and National at least.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Brad I really like Tralee as well. However, the course is somewhat disfunctional in flow. There are some great golf holes and it is a kick to play. I can see where a bunch of Tenn guys would put the chill on the golf experience eh Bogie.

[Steve Lang]

 

How about "The Carolina" in Southern Pines.. solid classic layout and features for courses in that Sand Hills geographical setting

[Doug Sobieski]

How many of these golf courses were actually designed by AP ?

Patrick:

I've been beating this dead horse for years on here! It's like evaluating the cars that William Clay Ford, Jr. designs. His name is on the company, so he must be responsible for the Mustang  

The better discussion might be whether people could discern differences in the courses designed by Erik, Harrison, Vicki, et al. That would be a fun exercise. Could someone tell who designed the various courses? Or is the formula and training so similar that it's not perceptible?

And you already know the answer to your question  

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