BUDA CUP Results and Other Musings

[Philip Gawith]

Ted, I think this is a fairly complete list of the people who played golf.

The Hoylake folk who joined us for the dinner were Anthony Shone, Nick Peel (chair of Greens committee) and Brian Chapman.

It was great meeting up! Trust you had safe travels back to US. If you fix that Long Island do I think you can reliably assume that you will break all Buda attendance records!

Philip


ROW/UK  

Lloyd Cole, Connemara    5
Philip Gawith, Hoylake    7
Sean Arble, Droitwich    9
Nick Leefe, Alwoodley/Hoylake    8
Alastair Beggs, Hoylake    4
Ian Dickson, Lundin Links    6
Tony Muldoon, Upminster    17
James Goby, Littlestone    12
Anthony Shone, Hoylake   11
Andy Levett, Seaton Carew   13
Peter Mallalieu, Littlestone   13
Andrew Mitchell, Northcliffe GC 8



USA
   
Ran Morrissett, Southern Pines CC, South Carolina    8
Ted Sturges, Broadmoor CC, Indiana    7
Ward Peyronnin, Victoria National, Indiana    4
Rich Goodale, Aberdour    6
Craig Disher, Argyle CC, Maryland    12
Michael Whitaker, Greenville Golfing Society, SC    6
Bill McBride, Pensacola CC, Florida    13
David McBride, unattached    8
Mark Bourgeois, Piedmont, Virginia    12

[ward peyronnin]

To Hosts,

I am too worn out (from steely eyed combat etcetara etcetara) to post much other than thanks Capt Rich for showing me your tidy and effective game and your efforts on behalf of us pilgrims and thanks Sean for posting pics of Wallasye; pleasure ( I think) to put a face to a name.

But most of all my sincerest gratititude for exceeding expectations so wildly my good Phillip! This event as described above didn't just unfold; how much better can it get to be Honored guests of members and councilmen at dinner in what I would now consider perhaps golf's second most hallowed ground.

Please forward asap my tithe so that I can respond with a proper note of thanks.

Kind Regards
Ward P

[Darren_Kilfara]

Glad everyone had a nice time at this year's Cup. I have previously indicated my willingness to help organise a future event at Machrihanish (+ Dunaverty), which I would still happily do in the event that there enough interest in that venue. (Note that apparently ground has been broken on the new course in town, next to Machrihanish, so perhaps we could wait for a future year - when the new course has opened - for this venue?)

Cheers,
Darren

[Lloyd_Cole]

Two great captains and two great teams over two great courses -thankfully the good guys lost. I am so happy to have taken part.  My knee may disagree.. but it can take a break now. It' s cold and raining in Oslo, what's new?

[Craig Disher]

Ran, Ward and I went to Delamere Forest after our lunch at Wallasey.  Did others play there the next morning?  

What did you all think of that course?

I loved it!

TS

Ted

Delamere is a good course.  If the greens were more interesting I think Delamere could be a great course.  I am not sure what happened to those greens, but I have a hard time believing Fowler is responsible.

Ciao

Sean

After playing Beau Desert I also can't believe any Delamere greens are Fowler originals. Mark's comment that Beau Desert is somewhere beyond the top 200 in the UK is a real howler. Although tree overgrowth has stolen character from some holes, the greens are superb. The fairway bunkering at BD also was in play more than at Delamere; many holes were crossed by bunkers or rough mounds which may have been bunkers at one time. But the greens were really something to behold.

Sadly, I don't think any of us took pictures - the weather was spotty and the ordeal of alternatively putting on and taking off waterproofs didn't encourage photography.

I can't thank Philip, Rich and Sean enough. The week was one that I'll remember for a very long time.

[Craig Disher]

Adding a few other views of Wallesey. I was surprised when I looked at my photos and found that they mirrored Sean's almost exactly.

The 3rd hole from the tee. 3 and 4 give a great contrast - from inside the dunes to a tee that seems to hang on the edge of the sea.



Sean steeling himself for the 4th. Hoylake is just the other side of the lighthouse in the upper right.



Looking back from the 5th tee to the plain that holds the 4th and 17th fairways:



The 11th. If the bunkers and approach weren't difficult enough to negotiate, the green is steeply sloped towards the front and any shot not reaching it will roll 30-50 yards back down the dune. Sean played a terrific shot from the first bunker on the left onto the green; no good deed goes unpunished - his ball finished about 40 feet below the hole after landing above it.



The clubhouse and 18th green. A great arena for a finish - as Michael Whitaker can attest.

[Craig Disher]

Sean,
I noticed a lot of stumps next to the fairway tree lines which suggested that some tree removal had taken place. For the most part the fairways had adequate width; what bothered me most were several holes that had tees placed into the woods with long, narrow chutes leading to the fairway. On one hole, the opening at the  fairway couldn't have been more than 15 yards wide 40 yards from the tee. In some cases, the chute obscured a good part of the fairway. And there's the tree almost in the middle of the par 3 (10th?).

Considering the overall quality of the course, these are minor complaints. But imagine Beau Desert with the tree management used at Delamere.

[Michael Whitaker]

Just to make sure this doesn't get buried in another thread here is a link to the photos taken by Mark Rowlinson at Hoylake. There will LOTS more photos when I can get them out of my camera!!!

Mark Rowlinson Hoylake Photo Album

[Philip Gawith]

Why were you playing off the yellows Sean?

[Philip Gawith]

No wonder you shot a disgraceful 42 points. Frank Stableford must be turning in his grave - or perhaps that is just a foul rumour!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

But we are all subscribing to the view that the Stableford competition was a Wallasey thing. http://www.glamorganshiregolfclub.co.uk/
There is another view.

I really don't care.

All I'm pleased about is that people who travelled thousands of miles to get here felt that it was worthwhile.  It's a dreadful responsibility recommending courses to visitors....

[Andrew Mitchell]

This is the first chance I'ver had to post my thanks to Philip, Rich, Sean et al for the superb organisation of this year's event.

Arriving at Hoylake last Monday I was somewhat nervous as I did not know a single person there - all were just names from this discussion board.  I need not have worried as I was immediately made to feel very welcome.

I made some good friends during the two days I had at Hoylake and Wallasey and Mike Whitaker and I had a great time in the wind and rain at Lytham last Thursday.

Once again many thanks to all concerned. I await with interest details of the 2007 event.

[ForkaB]

I'd like to bump this up to get people thinking more about next year.  From experience, if somebody does not grab the bullock by the bollocks, and soon, we will be into next season without a venue or any committed players......

As far as I can see, there are a number of alternatives, the least speculative of which (i.e. there has been some movement by somebody to carry the can) are:

St. Andrews
Machrihanish
Dornoch
Alwoodley
Littlestone

Some opinions/comments:

St. Andrews--some sort of GCA lovefest will probably happen around the time of the Reverse Old Course event at the beginning of April, but it will be fragmented in that there will be a limited number of players involved in the "reverse" event, and probably few who will want to make the journey if they are not so involved (remember that early April in Fife is not like early April in Augusta--for one, the azaleas are not yet blooming....).  I say we do this one on an informal ad hoc basis--arranging for some fringe venues for locals (e.g. Leven, Elie, etc.), and planning for a social occasion to get us all together.

Machrihanish--this is my first choice for now for the event proper, for a number of reasons, including--great course(s), gets us back up in Scotland where this all began after 3 years in perfidious Albion, Darren Kilfara has kindly offerred to host/organise this.  My only concern is the lack of a suitable hotel for a party of 20-25.  Any thoughts, Darren?

Dornoch--this is a return, but having it on the rota every 5 years (like The Old Course for the Open) is not a daft idea.  It is in Scotland (see above) and I would be happy to host/organise it

Alwoodley--a good idea, but maybe a bit too soon to return to middle England.  Wait till next year

Littlestone--another return and another good idea, but lets wait a year or two on that one, too.

I would recommend holding the event somewhere in the June to September period, for the purpose of adequate light and decent weather.  July and August might be difficult to book, given popularity, but not if we make a decision soon.  If we do either Machrihanish or Dornoch, I would recommend that we try to schedule the event around an Open tournament, as we did with Buda I at Dornoch, but only if feasible.

I look forward to hearing other thoughts, particularly from Darren, who has the unique perspective of having played for both teams in Buda's I and II!

[ForkaB]

C'mon, Sean!

Most of the Sassenachs who played at Hoylake (including you!) come to Scotland regularly for their real golf.  If the US team can fly in from 3000+ miles away, a few more hours in the car is not too much to ask of our friends down south.  Even if they can't or don't want to make the effort (though I'll bet that most of them will want to), I'm sure that at any Scottish venue we can get as many local players as needed to beef up the numbers on the ROW team.  As a last resort, we could always try for a more convenient "B list" venue such as North Berwick....

[Lloyd_Cole]

I have no preference regarding location. I like all the suggestions. But I suggest we consider the timing. Everything was wonderfully organised this year. Nevertheless, it could easily have been a wash out. We were very lucky to only get an hour or so of rain over the 3 days.. Given that folk are travelling from far and wide, at not inconsiderable expense, maybe we should aim for a time of year when rain is at least somewhat unlikely.
My only other request is that I get to play Ward in a rematch. The thrashing I received will not easily be forgotten.

[ForkaB]

Sean

All my banter is friendly.  You should know that by now... (PS--that emoticon was friendly).

Rich

PS--If you are not a Sassenach, why were you playing on the ROW team at Buda IV? (friendly, too).

PPS--thanks for agreeing with my main premise after taking your daily dose of umbrage. (VERY friendly!)

[Sean Walsh]

I'm all for May.  Early better than late.

My preferences would be for either the Macrihanish or Dornoch options.


I will also be available to share the organising load.  I'll probably be most able to give assistance from January onwards.

Also I'm a definite starter.

[Bill_McBride]

Rich, Nick Leefe, who is a member at both Alwoodley and Hoylake (life would be good!   ) has expressed great interest in helping to host a Buda Cup at a combination of Alwoodley and Ganton, says he can make those arrangements.   Next year is the centenary of Alwoodley so that would make a case for those plans. However, a year's wait would not be a problem either.

Since we are going to the Walker Cup at Royal County Down in September, my only trip to England/Scotland next year would be to the Reverse Old Course in late March/early April.  What is the typical weather in early April in Dornoch? (I suspect the worst:   )

[ForkaB]

Mark B.

Don't tell me you have to get back to DC for a game on May 12!

Sean W.

Thanks for the offer of help.  If Scotland is chosen either Darren of I will hold you to that commitment!

PS--let me know when you arrive

Sean A.

If you want something organised in England or Wales, that's not my department (as Tom Lehrer said of Werner von Braun...).

Bill McB

The weather in Dornoch in early April is normally a helluva lot better than it will be in St. Andrews, but neither place is ideal at that time.

If Nick wants to try to organise something in Yorkshire, let him do so and propose it to the board.  I personally would very much prefer to have Buda V in Scotland, but I am selfish and only have the same amount of votes as any willing participant.

All

I'm still backing Darren and Machrihanish, but if that can't be done, I have just phoned Dornoch and if we get a proposal to them by the end of this month, I think we have a good shot at getting the necessary tee times in early May.

Cheers

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

It's too long since I've been to either Machrihanish or Dornoch, so either sounds good to me.  The May dates suggested are also probably OK.  As a BUDA novice, it seems that it's impotant to have other good courses near to the main venue.  From Dornoch we could hit Brora and/or Nairn.  I'm not sure Dunaverty comes up to scratch.  Where else is around Machrihanish (is Shiskine easy to get to from there)?

[ForkaB]

Mark B

If you are a company man, you'll know Machrihanish like the back of your code book.  It was filled with spooks before they closed the air base.  Or did they really close it.....?

Mark P.

I've never played it, but from what I hear of Dunaverty, it will be vaut le detour.  If we do Dornoch, Brora or Golspie or Skibo or Struie would be the relief course.  Nairn is just three bridges too far.......

[Craig Disher]

Mark,
Don't worry. I've got your back.

Rich, As much as I'd like to return to Littlestone and Rye and would be willing to help organize, I agree we need to give them a rest and go elsewhere.

A favorite week for me would be the one beginning June 10 although early May would work almost as well. I haven't seen Dornoch in many years and would be happy to return but Sean's offer of Pennard sounds good too. Pennard's location might be more appealing to some of the ROWs.

[ForkaB]

Good points, Craig

However, I'm not at all ready yet to cede to those such as the R&A Grandee (I'm guessing it was Micklem) who HW Wind quoted as saying he had no reason to visit Dornoch as he already had all the Shetland sweaters he needed.....

I think our GCA brethren are more discriminating and made of sterner stuff.

Rich

[Tony_Muldoon]

Relevant bank holiday dates in Uk are 7th and 28th May(this week is alos probably half term).

I'm very interested but not on those dates - should they be considered.

October was something to look forward to all year and an extension to the core golf season.  It's 50/50 whether weather ( )is going to be better in May? Just my 3p worth.

[ForkaB]

Tony

There is 16+ hours of daylight in May vs. 11+ in October.  That by itself makes a May date preferable.  Also, in my experience, golf in May is MUCH more predictable than golf in October.  We got lucky on the Wirral.  Let's not press our luck.

Rich