Archaeology and Golf Course Architecture!

[Jay Flemma]

Where's David Doak when we need him?

I have a new piece comparing the decipherment of hieroglyphics with the doldrums period or GCA and design in the middle of last century.  Nothing earthshattering, just something fun and different.

Speaking of fun and different, I've upgraded my website to a new address and interface - www.jayflemma.thegolfspace.com.

Hope you like it.

So...the question is posed to all of you - what to you are the true indisputable masterpieces of Robert trent Jones in terms of GCA?  (The Father, not the son)

[David Stamm]

Spyglass Hill, Valderrama, The Dunes Club, and Peachtree.

[Jay Flemma]

Peachtree...thats one I should have remembered...I got the other 3...lots o' people like RTJ Club

[JMorgan]

I'm curious if anyone here would argue that Seven Oaks, Colgate University's course, is one of RTJ's best.

[Jay Flemma]

I wouldn't at all.  Its a quintessential example of a six hole wonder.  The last six holes are impressive, but the middle of the front nine is as pedestrian as any of the local munis...fairways seperated by small bushes and running parallel to each other.  Seven Oaks is one of the most overrated courses that I can recall and stayed on GD's top 100 list loooooooooong after it deserved.

Seven Oaks is two steps down from the resort courses I mentioned, maybe three.  Its also never been in consistent condition...I remember the last six being in great shape, but the front and 10-12 being spotty.  You might as well just nominate Valley View in Utica as one of RTJ's best...Seven Oaks is closer to VV than it is to nay of his resorts or daily fee courses.  Seven Oaks isn't even on par with the RTJ trail in Alabama. Crumpin Fox is a much better choice for quality and challenge.

However, I do know LPGA pro Moira Dunn grew up playing seven oaks everyday...she used to kick my bee-hind on a regular basis up there when we were kids.

However, I also know Mark Chalfant has a soft spot for all those Mohawk Valley area courses.  Where are you mark?  You must have played it?

[BCrosby]

Boyne Highlands. Don't know if makes the RTJ best list, but a very good course.

[Mike_Sweeney]

I'm curious if anyone here would argue that Seven Oaks, Colgate University's course, is one of RTJ's best.

I have only played Colgate once, but I doubt that it is one of his Top 10. While it is a better course than Cornell, I would argue that Cornell's course is more significant due to RTJ's early role.

I still think Montauk is one of his best, and while Rees may have done the work, it is still an RTJ course same as a any architect that does not live on the property.

[Eric Franzen]

Real Club de Golf Sotogrande is considered one of RTJ's best European layouts, next to Valderrama.

http://www.golfsotogrande.com/club_golf_sotogrande/club_golf_en.php

[Jay Flemma]

Hey Sweeney and Cros:

Good one on Boyne and yes, Sotogrande is solid also.

I'm in the minority - like I am on the topic or Bethpage red - but Montauk has never been a fave of mine.  Too narrow and too many uphill approaches, but I also can't stand that everybody walks aournd calling it a links course when its nowhere near.  but it is famous and a good price...

[JMorgan]

To be fair, I've not played so many RTJ courses; but the few that I have played that have received plaudits were underwhelming, with the exception of Dunes.  I've not played the Colgate course, but others have highly praised it, and so I was wondering.  

My father-in-law's home course in SC is a RTJ... but I'm not about to open that can 'o worms.  

[SPDB]

I would not credit the RTJ Golf Club to RTJ, but rather to Rulewich.

[Jay Flemma]

I would not credit the RTJ Golf Club to RTJ, but rather to Rulewich.

Now Sean, why do you feel that way?  Everybody lists RTJ as the architect...

[Jay Flemma]

My research didn't turn up anybody who listed the architect as Rulewich.

[Adam Clayman]

Before you limited to RTJ sr. I was Thinking about the Roseta Stone, being Prairie Dunes.

Maybe it was C&C's recent work, but I couldn't help but feel the course was a key to some architectural timeline.

[Jay Flemma]

But then avctually might national Golf Links of America be the Rosetta Stone..after all Macdonald "translated" ...ok, ok...transported, the rgeatest holes in christendom for our dissection and analysis.

Good stuff, Adam.