Australian Open at Victoria GC

[Chris Kane]

It is now less than six weeks until the Australian Open returns to Victoria Golf Club for the first time since 1981.

True to form, the AGU have credited Peter Thomson with the improvements to the course in preparation for the tournament: I'm wondering what the extent of his involvement was.  So far I have
1) recommending that #1 play as a par-3, and #8 as a par-4
2) a new tee on #9 to extend it to over 600yds.
I'm unaware of any changes "on the ground" attributable to TWP.  Can anyone clarify this?

Perhaps NicP can give us an update on how the course is looking, particularly the greens.  It will be great if they can have the greens rock-hard and super-fast in the best sandbelt tradition.  Surely this is an answer to low-scoring: prevent players floating in wedges like on the PGA Tour.

[Justin_Ryan]

The following quote was in yesterdays Age.  "The ninth and 17th, both par fives, have been lengthened to more than 550 metres each. Peter Thomson has supervised the changes, so you can be certain that they are for the better."  We certainly are lucky to have Peter Thomson preserving the integrity of the great courses on the Australian Open rota.  

The greens have always been hard and fast on the few occasions I've played there, and that's always been on a weekday.  I would imagine they will be much harder and faster again for the Open.  It will be interesting to see how Rich Beem and Kenny Perry and any other overseas visitors handle the conditions, although of course, it was an American player who won the last time the Open was held there.

The full article is here at http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/09/1034061255051.html .

[Chris Kane]

Justin,

That article was the one that I was thinking of, and it highlights the attitude of the AGU.  All they're doing is publicising the construction of new tees: exciting stuff!

It would have been much better for them to speak of the "restoration" that has been happening there the past few years; talk about the old photo that hung in the downstairs bar.  They wouldn't have to mention Mike Clayton's name if they didn't want to.  Much more significant than some new tees.

It will be interesting to watch how these overseas player handle the greens, particularly if the northerly gets up.  We all remember the massacre at the President's Cup with those conditions: maybe Victoria will throw up a similar challenge?  If the wind does get strong, my pick would be an experienced Australian player: Allenby or Appleby come to mind.

[Mike Clayton]

Chris

I doubt the AGU even have any idea what has gone on at Victoria over the last seven years.
Peter Lonard is my favourite. In a Vic Open there a few years ago he had 35 putts for a 67. In a south wind he hit every green ,drove 1 and 15 and hit 8 and 18 in two.Still hasn't missed a cut in America this year and top 20 in the final 3 majors of the year.

[Chris Kane]

Mike,

How do you think 18 will hold up as a par-5 finishing hole, particularly downwind?  Obviously your additional fairway bunkering will give the guys something to think about from the tee, but can we expect a flurry of eagles if the conditions are right?  

In the scheme of things it doesn't matter (its the same for everyone), but I'm wondering what the AGU will think if the finishing hole is statistically the easiest hole on the course.

[MikeClayton]

Chris
Its marginally harder than before because the tee is back ten yards,the left fairway bunker has been cut out 2 or 3 yards and there is the new bunker down the right.It is a much more difficult driving hole now.
Then there is a new pin position behind the slightly deeper left bunker by the green and the back right bunker is tucked around the back of the green a little more than it was. The bunker is deeper and significantly more difficult to get up and down from.
Now its a more difficult two shot hole than it ever was but downwind its still a drive and a middle iron at that time of the year
Anyone with 4 to win is going to have to hit two terrific shots and that is all you want.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mike, in what order are they playing the holes, and secondly when does the first green get rebuilt (and how will it differ from the one thats there now)?

Shane

[MikeClayton]

Shane
They are playing the normal order which is good -hitting off 10 and giong 11,8,9,1 would have been silly.
We have a great picture of the old first at Commonwealth and the land is almost exactly the same so hopefully we can replicate the principles of that hole.
Next year is the centenary of the club so they may do it in 2004.

[Chris Kane]

Mike,

Are you able to put the picture of the old CGC#1 up here?  If you can scan it, I'll be able to post it.

[Justin_Ryan]

Mike
It would be great to experience the joys of the old 1st at Commonwealth, even if we have to go to Vic to do it.  Having repeatedly being told the old 7th was amongst Melbourne's best par threes, could you also try and build a copy of that one for those of us that never had the chance to experience it.

BTW, having recently played the VicPGA at Kew, how would you rate that course?  

Geoff Ogilvy should also be amongst the favourites at Vic, and is due to record a win.  And with it looking like Badds probably won't need to go to Q school, he could be a chance (no really, I'm not joking).

Chris
Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be studying for your exams.  I think I'll have to tell your parents to put GCA into Net Nanny.

[Mark_F.]

I may be getting ahead of myself, but Mike, as a former player, how do you think the players next year will look back on the inaugural open at that maddening waste of land Moonah Links, when compared to the glories of the classic sand belt course they will be playing this year?  Think the AGU will still plan on holding it down there every two/three years?

[Mike Clayton]

Justin

Ogilvy will indeed be one of the favourites. I don't think we have ever had a young player who has played so well and got so little attention or credit .
Kew is exactly what the members obviously want- botanical.
The two best holes on the course would be the 12th and the 16th if they could get rid of the trees and play them as par fours.
And you have to love the stripes on the fairways.Looks like a British football pitch .


Mark
The players are always going to enjoy the sand belt above anything else -especially a course where most won't break 80 if the wind gets over 25 mph.
I suspect there are some -not players- who would enjoy that.

[Chris Kane]

Mark F, Mike,
I heard that some overseas players expressed similar sentiments while at The Grand last year: "why are we here when there are so many great courses in this country".  I'd hope that they feel the same way next year.

Justin,
I'm not going to try and justify myself, but I'll say that when you're studying, on occasion you do stop.  Did you work solid 12hr days as a student yourself.

There is no doubt that that the best career path for you would be teaching.  You have a natural interest in the area, and with you charisma, you would rise to a senior position in little time at all.

[Justin_Ryan]

Mike
I did indeed have a chuckle at the stripes in the fairways.  Having heard a lot about the course, it really didn't look a whole lot better than a good country course.

Mark F
I'm not sure Mike would appreciate being categorized as a former player, but it can be seen from your comments on Moonah Links that you will fit in just fine on this site.  In addition to ML being light years away from the quality of Vic, it would also seem to be difficult logistically.  Plus, unless they have Tiger, they are unlikely to be able to pull much of a crowd down there, especially given it is held outside peak holiday season.  Its not like you can drop in after morning at the office.

Chris
If you're only doing 12 hours a day then you're not working hard enough.  But thank you for the career advice.

[Paul Daley]

Justin:

I've just got new glasses and have noticed for the first time there is a huge yellow bumble bee beside each of your posts. Where did the blighter come from?

[Ran Morrissett]

Who deserves the credit for the routing at Victoria GC that we will see on TV in a few weeks?

How did the 1st green complex look/play 30 years ago (I assume 30 years pre-dates the change)?

Starting with the 4th hole, would folks agree that each subsequent par three gets marginally less appealing than the one before it? Overall, aren't its one shotters the relative weakness of the course?

[Shane Gurnett]

Mike C

How do you compare the greens complexes at Victoria with the rest of the sandbelt? I've personally always felt they were bland in comparison to say Royal, Woodlands and Commonwealth. How many (and which ones) have been changed for the worse over the years, and does the clubs master plan seek to restore the orginal contours where they can be cleraly re-established?

[Shane Gurnett]

Ran, I've always considered the 14th the strongest of the par 3's at Vic, so I cant agree with you on that theory. 16 for mine is clearly the weakest (but still not a bad hole), but I still have 14 ahead of 4 and then 7. An even bunch perhaps, with no real outstanding par 3, contrary to the general theme of the sandbelt.

[Paul Daley]

Take Victoria's par-3s out of Melbourne and I suspect golfers would rave about them. To me, the 4th, 14th and 16th are nearly inseparable in quality, while the 7th is good, but not quite in that class.

The new wild and wooly "sandy" exposed look on the 16th is visually appealing, and another example of tasteful restoration.