[Tom Huckaby]

Rich:

Nope.  The one you stole from me was making 6 PB play all the way down to 7 green.    Reverse CP was TEP's.  I argued against both of you, saying that course is better how it is now.

In any case good call re Prestwick... that did get me thinking.

 

[Stan Dodd]

It takes a couple of good golf shots, although quirky, to make par.  If you let your guard down you can make a number.  I agree with Tom not as bad as a lot of people think, but certainly not as good as the 17 that come before.
Would peoplefeel different if it came elsewhere in the round?

[Lou_Duran]

Sir Robert,

If the trees in the fairway were gone would you still feel the way you do?  I am 0 for on 18, and I know two guys who were very receptive to my charity after a short (3') missed putt which flipped the match (to our host's chagrin and immedaite departure from the grounds).  The second shot is difficult, at least a club longer than it looks, and the green itself is no picnic.  I have not notice Brad's reverse camber as the fairway's right (high) to left slope in the driving area is rather mild.  Olympic's #17 is not a good hole, in my opinion, and the slope there from left to right is huge.

BTW, I consider #10 to be CPC's weakest hole, and #14 one of the most unique and possibly underrated.

[Tom Huckaby]

Lou:

Concur re 10 and especially 14.  The latter is a GREAT golf hole.

I also concur re 18... if chain saw is to be procured, use it on the trees in front of the tee... but spare the trees to the sides and especially the huge one near the green.

TH

[Mike Benham]

Although it may be anticlimatic, the 18th at CPC is not easy, at least not so in the same breath as TOC or Prestwick.

After surviving 15 and 16, battling the strangeness of 17, you come to 18 tee wanting to play those last 3 holes again, and that simple thought makes 18 even more difficult.

Bob - which do you prefer, #18 at CPC or #18 at your Shore course?  

[James Bennett]

Bump, for the other thread.

[John Kirk]

Is there a greater anticlimax to a round of golf than facing the 18th at Cypress Point?

Bob

Gee, I really couldn't tell you.

I will say this.  Bandon Dunes 18th hole has been regularly identified as an anticlimactic finish, after skirting the ocean on holes 16 and 17.

[Garland Bayley]

Well as they said at Chambers Bay, if you put the clubhouse on the water, you loose some of the best land for golf. Would you rather the clubhouse be in the location of the 16th green, or would you rather have 16 as is and return to the clubhouse with 18?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Any hole after 15, 16 and seventeen is anti-climactic.  The biggest anticlimax was walking to my car thinking, "I may never get here again."

[Brad Tufts]

After one play, I think it should be a par 3.  

More seriously though, I thought it was a quirky finisher surrounded by the most lasting image of the property, the gnarled cypress trees.  I think it fits.

I don't think every #18 should be a bruising 460-yd finisher, and #8 at PB wouldn't have fit the land going back towards the clubhouse.  I do think #18 at CP requires two precise shots, the second being one that not only challenges club selection and distance control, but also ball flight around,over or under the overhanging tree, certainly a unique challenge.

[Doug Ralston]

This very morning I had a pretty maximal anti-climax. I walked off Aston Oaks, a pretty little Nicklaus Inc course in western Cincinnati; and I was simply happy to be done.

Why? To begin with, I lost 26(!) golf balls today. That should tell you something of the insane angles my golf took. I have never worried much about score ...... but a round like this is hard for anyone to take. Hard to even understand. I bet I hit the hosel of my driver a dozen times today, seven or eight of them on the 8th tee, where I lost 10 balls before departing.

Anyway, all approach shots went right, all tee shots went left [and down!]. And FINALLY ...... I went home.

That was a round well worth forgetting!

Doug

[Kalen Braley]

So would it be correct to assume that a few of the trees on CPC 18 should be removed to make the hole more playable?  Or would this take away some of its defenses?  Or perhaps just prune them back so one has hope to hit thru a couple of the branches.

On a related note, with todays modern constructions materials and techinques, I would think a bridge could be constructed out to that rock that could withstand a few wicked storms here and there.  With that parking lot where it is, I'm not sure what they would do with that though....

[Gary Slatter]

I found Prestwick's 18th similar, however I liked all 18 holes at Cypress and Prestwick.  no anticlimax for me either place.  TOC set the stage perhaps.

[Gary Slatter]

This very morning I had a pretty maximal anti-climax. I walked off Aston Oaks, a pretty little Nicklaus Inc course in western Cincinnati; and I was simply happy to be done.

Why? To begin with, I lost 26(!) golf balls today. That should tell you something of the insane angles my golf took. I have never worried much about score ...... but a round like this is hard for anyone to take. Hard to even understand. I bet I hit the hosel of my driver a dozen times today, seven or eight of them on the 8th tee, where I lost 10 balls before departing.

Anyway, all approach shots went right, all tee shots went left [and down!]. And FINALLY ...... I went home.

That was a round well worth forgetting!

Doug

how do you carry 27 balls in a bag?

[Doug Ralston]

This very morning I had a pretty maximal anti-climax. I walked off Aston Oaks, a pretty little Nicklaus Inc course in western Cincinnati; and I was simply happy to be done.

Why? To begin with, I lost 26(!) golf balls today. That should tell you something of the insane angles my golf took. I have never worried much about score ...... but a round like this is hard for anyone to take. Hard to even understand. I bet I hit the hosel of my driver a dozen times today, seven or eight of them on the 8th tee, where I lost 10 balls before departing.

Anyway, all approach shots went right, all tee shots went left [and down!]. And FINALLY ...... I went home.

That was a round well worth forgetting!

Doug

how do you carry 27 balls in a bag?

In the bag's pockets.  

Doug

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I have for some time now come to the comclusion that I may be the only one who did not dislike #18 at CPC...perhaps by then I was so in awe of the place that I could see no wrong, but I just dont understand the harsh comments.
It is a stratgically placed tee shot to an elevated green atht requires some degree of precision...the greens bunkering is superb, and the green itself has enough contour to keep any golfer honest....but best of all THE VIEW...awesome...when you walk towrad the green glance left and see that view...wow...I just dont understand the criticism...ever thought Dr Mac intended it that way...that view reminding you of all you have just enjoyed without the extra thoughts of yet another spell binding hole.....to me it is just another example of his genius....but perhaps that is just the romantic in me

[Mark Arata]

i would love to comment on this, but "the sea was angry" the day that I played it and we never got to 17 or 18....

(but I did par 16, in a hail storm, so there  )

[Tom Huckaby]

Michael:  you are not alone in your assessment of CPC 18.  There are a proud few of us who share these views.  We just don't chime in much because getting shouted down gets old quickly.

 

[Kalen Braley]

I've never played CPC 18, although I have seen it from said parking lot to the south as well as in aerial views, so I'm just taking a stab in the dark here.

Is the reason 18 is not well recieved because of its tight nature?  For hole after hole prior to 18, one plays to fairly wide open fairways without much tree interference.  Yes bunkering is in play, but contending with trees is not on the forefront.  And then on the last hole it constricts and requires the player to negotiate the trees.  Is it this massive shift in playing characteristics that gets people "disappointed" in the last hole?  

If one was playing down the street at Spyglass, then perhaps there would not be such a response.  Just wondering...

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:

That likely has something to do with it, but not much.  Trees play a significant role on 1, 4, 5, 6, 14, 17.  So it's not like the course is treeless.

I think what gets people are the trees directly in the way off the tee.  Look at the aerials posted in the other threads... you have to hit right over some trees to reach the fairway.

And that is weird.  Then you combine this with the very tight nature of the hole up near the green, and there's the dislike.

None of it bothers me though.  Oh, like I said earlier in this thread, I can't call it a great hole... but I also don't see it as an anticlimax.

[Mike Benham]

In the olden days, when match play was the game played worldwide, would a lackluster 18th not be an issue as some make it today?

TOC, Prestwick, CPC, North Berwick all qualify ... (although TOC, Prestwick and NB now are driveable par-4s and probably great for match play ...)

[Rick Shefchik]

Anybody know the age of the offending trees off the 18th tee?

There's been a lot of speculation on these three threads about what Dr. Mackenzie intended, but I always assume an architect did not intend for a tree to affect the line of play unless the tree was already there when he designed the hole.

[Pete Lavallee]

Anybody know the age of the offending trees off the 18th tee?

Rick,

I've asked that question several times and never got an answer. It would seem to me that the tree has grown over the years and is now an impediment to play, but who in their right mind would cut down a gnarly old cypress tree the could be older than your father?

[Kalen Braley]

Anybody know the age of the offending trees off the 18th tee?

Rick,

I've asked that question several times and never got an answer. It would seem to me that the tree has grown over the years and is now an impediment to play, but who in their right mind would cut down a gnarly old cypress tree the could be older than your father?

I've got Geoffs book on CPC at home.  I'll check to see what pics exist of 18 when it was orginally built.  If memory serves me right, the trees were there but not nearly as over-grown  as it is 80 years later.

I have advocated this in the past and will do so again.  But to satisfy both the tree and non-tree camps, why is it not feasible to go in every 5 years and prune the trees that are regulary in play on the course?  Yes it would be damn expensive to prune every tree on the course, but couldn't a couple of dozen that really come into play be thinned out to still get players thinking about them, but at the same time allow a recovery if you get behind it?

[mark chalfant]

Bob,
I would nominate  the 18th   at White Bear yacht, one of Donald Ross greatest courses on a superb  piece of rugged Minnesota land. the 18th at  WBYC  is 320 yards...  A bland drive followed by a non descript approach.

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