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Dale_McCallon

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Interesting Oakmont quote
« on: May 26, 2007, 09:04:27 PM »
In this week's Sports Illustrated Golf Plus section this quote appears:

"Chopping down more than 5000 trees turned Oakmont from my top US Open venue into my least favorite.  They've ruined the masterpiece."

The quote was not attributed to anyone.

While I know this thinking would get a poster banished from this site, do you think this is the thinking of most in the golf world?

Larry_Keltto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2007, 10:21:15 PM »
The quote came from John Elliott, teaching pro at St. Andrews Golf & Country Club in West Chicago, Ill. Ironic quote, isn't it, given the name of his golf course.

The U.S. Open this year is an important week for taking the tree-management case to the nation.

I hope some of the talkers at NBC are able to articulate why the tree-removal project at Oakmont is a triumph.

But I fear many more comments like the one from Mr. Elliott. Geoff Ogilvy will "get" the changes, Brad Faxon too, Tiger perhaps, and of course the Europeans and Brits.


Mike_Cirba

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2007, 10:43:19 PM »
One look at Ran's profile of Oakmont should convince anyone here of the wisdom of the tree removal.

One could only wish that they gave Ran 5 minutes of airtime during the tourmanent proper to educate the masses.  Personally, I'm imagining it's going to be the most exciting US Open from an architectural standpoint that we've seen in decades.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 10:43:41 PM by MPCirba »

Dale_McCallon

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Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2007, 08:53:53 AM »
Mike,

Is it too late to "educate the masses", or do they even want to be "educated".  I agree that it would be great if some one would talk about the program and why it has been the right decision for Oakmont, but don't you think so many people have their preconceived notions of what a "US Open" course should be--long, narrow, w/lots of rough.  And in case of places like Oakmont or WF lots of trees.

Larry,

Thanks for the info about the source.  I knew that he was the writer of the golf tip, but wasn't sure if he also the originator of quote.


Robert_Walker

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2007, 09:31:57 AM »
"......Geoff Ogilvy will "get" the changes, Brad Faxon too, Tiger perhaps, and of course the Europeans and Brits."


Why assume that the Europeans and Brits will get the changes? I watch the European Tour and the Ryder Cup Matches, and see lots of trees!

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2007, 11:38:26 AM »
I was having a chat last night with the coach of an elite player, and the word is that Tiger loves Oakmont and has already figured out his gameplan. The driver isn't going to be coming out much...

Mike_Cirba

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 10:01:36 AM »
Mike,

Is it too late to "educate the masses", or do they even want to be "educated".  I agree that it would be great if some one would talk about the program and why it has been the right decision for Oakmont, but don't you think so many people have their preconceived notions of what a "US Open" course should be--long, narrow, w/lots of rough.  And in case of places like Oakmont or WF lots of trees.



Dale,

It's a slow educational process, to be sure, but one that is gaining momentum.

Anyone who has seen Brad Klein's extremely educational and pointedly humorous presentation on "trees" knows that there is inescapable $en$e and practical logic in the idea of not letting our courses become overgrown.

Yet, for every Oakmont or Merion, or Manufacturers, there are others that add trees, or permit continued overgrowth, which is why the recent ANGC example is so damaging.

It's also why it would be so terrific for a bellweather course like Pine Valley to pick up the pace aggressively on their own tree management program.   Right now, I'd say despite some positive intentions, it's nowhere near where it should be to recover all of the architectural greatness of what Crump and Colt built.

I played an old Willie Park course yesterday that is awfully overgrown, so I think I'll start a new thread to further expand on some of the challenges we clear-cutters face.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 10:58:22 AM by MPCirba »

John_Cullum

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Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 04:59:52 PM »
Maybe he was refering to the tree they removed to put the grand stand in
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 08:07:11 PM »
Anyone who has played St. Andrews outside of Chicago should know the course's name has nothing to the with the Cradle of golf, and the head pro there, clearly has little to no knowledge of what constitutes great golf.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Peter Pallotta

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 08:27:59 PM »
I hope not too far off-topic, and not covering well-covered ground:

Oakmont President Banks Smith said that they began the tree removal in the early 1990s, 1993 I think. Anyone know where he/Oakmont got the idea, or who they were influenced by?

It seems that Oakmont was on the leading edge of the 'restoration' and 'tree removal' curve both, so I'm wondering if Oakmont just happens to have a very informed and historically-minded membership, or if there were specific consulting architects helping them along.

Thanks
Peter
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 08:30:41 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Dunlop_White

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Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 09:16:11 PM »
Actually, Doak initiated some tree management at GCGC a bit before Oakmont did in the early 1990's. So Oakmont was not the first but was the most agressive and likely the most influential.

Arthur Hills was at Oakmont early on when they embarked upon tree removal.

While other clubs base tree removal on their agronomic, strategic, and aesthetic impact, Oakmont did not focus on the liabilities of trees, their species, or their positioning. It was purely a restoration endeavor. A 1949 aerial photo that revealed a treeless landscape became the centerpiece of their restoration, because it best represented the culmination of the Fownes' family vision. You see, William (WC) died the following year.

I did a story on pg 65 of LINKS magazine this month. And likely, Klein will hammer the message home in GW and beyond.


« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 01:59:41 PM by Dunlop_White »

Peter Pallotta

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 10:02:10 PM »
Dunlop - thanks very much. That's was very clear and helpful.

Peter

Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2007, 01:58:59 PM »
Also, check out Whitten's spread on trees in GD!

As a sidebar, I also just read Whitten's interview. He describes Oakmont as "not a good looking course". "Stark" etc.
I think the grand Tudor-style clubhouse with the towering flagpoles with views overlooking the entire course with colors of emerald green fairways, white bunkers, and tawny brown fescues in the ditches and beyond looks about as gorgeous as any I've seen. Comments?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 02:08:34 PM by Dunlop_White »

BCrosby

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Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2007, 02:43:57 PM »
Dunlop -

For us Americans, a treeless course is an adjustment. But the adjustment doesn't usually take long. The treeless green expanse that looked naked at first, suddenly looks terrific.

You are right to think Oakmont will be influential. A trend has been set in motion. I am even seeing it here in Atlanta.

Bob

 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2007, 02:57:15 PM »
Oakmont may have already claimed its first victim before it even starts:

"Earlier this week Mickelson, second on the money list to Woods, played at Oakmont, site of the U.S. Open in two weeks. That is where he apparently injured his wrist, although the couldn't remember precisely when he first hurt it.

"I was hitting a lot of chip shots out of the rough at Oakmont and I think that kind of aggravated it."


Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2007, 03:02:55 PM »
Dunlop, I notice another head scratcher in that RW interview. When he says he is too right brained conflicts with him being a prosecutor.

This isn't the first time RW's aesthetic sensibilities are amiss. He suggested that Twin Warriors should conclude on the most serene and beautiful of spots, near the snake's head ridge. Doing so would've ruined the natural beauty and serentity of that location.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jay Flemma

Re:Interesting Oakmont quote
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2007, 04:13:45 PM »
Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told the trees they removed were never intended to be part of the course in the first place.  I heard the tree removal was "memorial trees" and beautification trees...not trees that existed in 1903...I was told the course...in terms of trees...looks more like fownes intended for a long time.

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