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David Stamm

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Scotland vs. Ireland
« on: September 26, 2006, 03:55:04 PM »
Ted Sturges' post has prompted me to ask a question. For a first timer to the British Isles ( and by British I mean no disrespect to the Irish), if you had to choose which one to visit first, Scotland or Ireland to play, which would it be and cite your reasons why. I plan on eventually playing both, but for a first timer, which one would you recommend?
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Daryl David

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 05:02:41 PM »
If you plan on eventually doing both, then the question doesn't matter.  If you think it is your last trip, then the question gets real interesting.  Since you asked though, I would do Scotland first.  Drown yourself in the history but make sure you don't just play the Open roto courses.  Play a wide variety of links to get a real feel for the game there.

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Dan_Callahan

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 05:07:07 PM »
One word for you: Guinness.

Without hesitation, I would go to Ireland first and probably second.
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ward peyronnin

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 05:14:59 PM »
David,

Have been to Scotland several times; will return from Ireland Oct 6 and offer an opinion then.

Although the Scots are fairly friendly ( unless you begin to talk about the English) I hear they are not the equal of a good Irishman for hospitality and good cheer.

Can't imagine the character of the courses differs that greatly.

Ward P
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Doug Wright

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 08:14:09 PM »
David,

FYI this question has been asked and answered many times on here. Perhaps you can find the prior threads via a search.
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 08:25:16 PM »
Quote from: ward peyronnin on September 26, 2006, 05:14:59 PM
David,

Have been to Scotland several times; will return from Ireland Oct 6 and offer an opinion then.

Although the Scots are fairly friendly ( unless you begin to talk about the English) I hear they are not the equal of a good Irishman for hospitality and good cheer.

Can't imagine the character of the courses differs that greatly.

Ward P

Ward

You are in for a very nice surprise. The character of the courses that I experienced in Ireland from Ballybunion up the west coast to Portrush differ quite a bit from Scotland where I have played quite a bit more golf. The land is quite a bit more dramatic within the dunes and I've found nothing more breathtaking then the views from the Irish Links. Other then putting up with Ran's whining you are in for a great treat.

That said, for a first trip for David I would ask if you have any hesitation about driving or traveling from place to place.  Ireland requires a lot of work to get from course to course.  In Scotland, you can pick two or three places to stay and play a dozen wonderfoul links.  It is easier for a first experience of UK links golf. I think Scotland may be my favorite place on earth, however, nothing I have experienced has equaled the friendly hospitality of the Irish people and their dramatic links. It is a tough choice.
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Bill Gayne

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 08:31:36 PM »
Daryl is exactly right if you're going to make multiple trips: it doesn't matter. I went to Ireland first for family reasons. If it's Ireland I suggest the SW or the North (PortStewart down to County Down).

If it's Scotland than the obvious choice to me is Fife.

First trip with golfing buddies = Scotland
Trip with wife or girlfriend = SW Ireland

There is no wrong answer just poor planning.
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Ian Andrew

Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 09:32:47 PM »
David,

I have just completed a second trip to Scotland a week ago and I'm one year removed from my Ireland adventure.

I perfered Ireland for the dunes and the courses, but as Geoff eluded to getting to each course is far more difficult and some of the driving is frightening in the narrow roads.

Scotland is far less complicated, closer together and offers a second tier of courses that is far superior to any country. Take a Montrose for example, it makes nobody's list of must plays, but I doubt anyone would be disappointed with the quality of golf.

The one advantage Scotland offers that is very important, as Geoff mentioned, is the chance to pick a spot like St. Andrew's where you can play lots of great golf all within an hour's drive and stay in one place. I would concider that option for a first trip. It also gives a great excuse to return.

Ian
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Ed Tilley

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 09:23:06 AM »
Quote from: Ian Andrew on September 26, 2006, 09:32:47 PM
David,

Scotland is far less complicated, closer together and offers a second tier of courses that is far superior to any country. Take a Montrose for example, it makes nobody's list of must plays, but I doubt anyone would be disappointed with the quality of golf.


Ian,

You're not seriously suggesting that the second tier of Scottish golf courses is superior to that in England are you? The depth and variety of courses in England blows Scotland and Ireland out of the water. What Scotland and Ireland have is the truly magical courses that England doesn't really have - plus they're not full of English people like me ;).

Ed
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Tom_Doak

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 09:27:07 AM »
Ed:

You'll have to forgive Ian, he has not had the opportunity to spend a month or two in England to see how many great courses are there.

David:

No sense in trying to rate one above the other, both are must-sees.  But one tip:  NEVER use the phrase "British Isles" when you are in Ireland.  I did that once, when visiting with a nice old woman in Ballybunion, and the mood got really chilly in a hurry!  I have since eliminated it from my vocabulary, even though "Great Britain & Ireland" is more cumbersome.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 09:28:10 AM by Tom_Doak »
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Ian Andrew

Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 10:52:23 AM »
Ed,

Would this become more embarrasing if I confess I'm English born too. :) Tom is right I have no experience with English golf and I'm guilty of overstatement.

My bad.
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Robert Thompson

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 11:40:42 AM »
While Ian might be overstating things, I do think there is no comparison between the second tier of Scottish courses and those that can be found in Ireland. Ireland is full of bad American-style parkland layouts that have been built in the past few years, while Scotland has Nairn, Brora, Western Gailes, Montrose, Crail and the like....
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Jack_Marr

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2006, 12:31:40 PM »
Ireland is full of American style courses, and these are the ones that everyone is aware of. However, there's also lots of older traditional style courses - Headfort old, the Hermitage, the Grange, Little Island, Mulingar, Tramore, the Curragh... I don't know how they compare to similar courses in Scotland, but they are needlessly written off by people visiting Ireland and by people who are discussing Irish golf.

If you don't want to go to an American style course when you're in Ireland, visit the links or else visit these courses.
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John Marr(inan)

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2006, 02:20:00 PM »
I've been there 3 times, Scotland first and then Ireland 2 times and plan one more trip to Ireland.

I did the Old Course at St. Andrews(2), Muirfield(2), Gullane(2), Troon(1), Turnberry(4) and then Dornock(5), 11 days, 16 rounds
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Troy Alderson

Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2006, 11:55:31 PM »
David,

I believe you have a typo on the subject line, shouldn't it be Scotland & Ireland?   :D :D :D

Troy
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2006, 08:58:28 AM »
just to add to jack marr's comments, some other fantastic inland courses of the more traditional type (in ireland) include carlow, mullingar and westport... and you saying that scottish second tier courses are links and irish ones are american layouts... that's bad information... there are good 2nd tier links courses in ireland too...

...plus there are wonderful traditional parkland & heathland layouts in scotland e.g. gleneagles kings & queens, boat of garten, ladybank, edzell, blairgowrie etc...

in short, go to either but plan well

however, i reckon scotland just pips ireland if you wish to find highly original course from the braid era and before
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2006, 11:30:54 AM »
I have to second Ian's and Tom" comments.  England has at least as many great golf courses as either Ireland or Scotland.  They have wonderful links courses and the heathland courses are unequalled anywhere.
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Doug Wright

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2006, 12:46:40 PM »
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Pete Lavallee

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Re:Scotland vs. Ireland
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2006, 03:40:57 PM »
I would certainly agree with all the advice offered so far. Any student of golf course architecture has to visit all three places at sometime or other.

The obvious progression, which I followed, would be to visit Scotland first, Ireland second and finally visit England. The reasons are obvious; Scotland truely is the home of golf. The pride the residents show in the sport is truely amazing. I would echo the sentiments that no one will treat travelling golfers better than the Irish; truely the finest overall golfing vacation I have been on. Tony's point about the amazing number of second tier courses in England is spot on. You will be able to play courses there that are the nearly equal of the top tier in Sccotland and Ireland for a fraction of the cost.

The one item that has not yet been touched on however is that the Scots can be very diificult to understand even under normal conditions. However when they have consumed a few adult beverages they can be very difficult to comprehend. Heck, I don't think they can understand each other when they've had a few drinks! The Irish on the other hand can be understood by all, even after gallons of Guiness. :D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 03:42:06 PM by Pete Lavallee »
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