[David Stamm]

I first want to thank everyone for the info on the courses in the Monterey area. It was very helpful. Now I have another question. Before heading up to Monterey, I'm stopping at Santa Barbara for a couple of nights. One of the days I'm playing La Purisima and I can't decide between Sandpiper or Rustic. I know how everyone feels about Rustic here, but I just wanted a fair comparison of the two. Which of the two would you play? I know there's a pretty sig. price diff. between the two, but that aside, how do they compare in design quality?

[Tom Huckaby]

Well not to harp on geography again, but you do realize these are pretty far apart, right?  

But let's assume that's not an issue - you're driving with Ed Getka.  

Design:  not even a contest.  Rustic wins in a landslide.  It is a marvel of design really and simply must be seen.

Scenic beauty:  as nice and interesting in its own way as Rustic's surrounds are, they aren't the Pacific Ocean and there just always be a lure about playing near big water.  Sandpiper has some pretty incredible holes in that respect, as it sits on cliffs above the ocean (pretty much like Torrey Pines). You may be oceaned-out after Monterey though, so this may not matter... But most people do kinda like the views there at Sandpiper.

So it depends on what you want....

TH

[David Stamm]

Thanks Tom. I'm driving up from San Diego and was thinking stopping in Moorpark to play RC since it's on the way to SB. I've played Torrey about 50-60 times. I know it's the same designer (W Bell jr.), but is it maybe too similar to warrant playing that over RC?

[Tom Huckaby]

David - if you've played Torrey that much, then oh yes, no need to stop at Sandpiper at all.  Get thyself to Rustic.  And yes it will be right on the way, relatively.

TH

[David Stamm]

Hey Tom, as a side note, have you played La Purisima? The greens are being punched a week before i get there and I'm wondering if the design still warrants a visit despite this?

[Tom Huckaby]

Hey Tom, as a side note, have you played La Purisima? The greens are being punched a week before i get there and I'm wondering if the design still warrants a visit despite this?

Indeed yes.  And it is one hell of a course.  Very tough, very scenic, very fun, assuming you keep your score expectations in check.

I'm just not sure what you mean by "design" though... I'd say Rustic is a marvel of design because they've created a course fun for all, full of opportunities for strategic courses, and kept it at a reasonable price.  That to me is impressive.  But I also don't care about "design" per se as most in here...

Is the aim to study architecture and see new things, or to just plain have fun?  Of course one can do both... but if you're in it purely for the study, then La Purisima may not get your blood pumping.  Not that it's bad in any way... it's just not the marvel that Rustic is in this respect.

TH

[Tim Leahy]

I beg to differ with Huck, I think that Sandpiper differs quite a bit from Torrey and the ocean holes at Sandpiper are ten times more spectacular than the holes near the ocean at Torrey and the greens are much more exciting at Sandpiper than Torrey. For my first trip I would play Sandpiper over Rustic every time unless cost is a consideration. Also if you have time constraints you would be better off getting through the wall to wall traffic of Ventura County on the 101 before 3pm or you will add another two hours to your trip to Monterey. Another option along the way is Hunter Ranch in Paso Robles about two hours from Monterey.

[David Stamm]

Thanks Tom. Ultimately, it's about the fun. After all, this is a game. Fun always comes first for me, but was just wondering if the course (probably should've worded as course instead of design) was still worth playing despite the greens being punched. I hear the locals call it La Piranha because of how difficult it is. I'm looking forward to it.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

My aim was not to compare and contrast the two courses.  I just do believe that a guy who's played Torrey 50-60 times will get very little kick out of Sandpiper... they are surely more similar than they are different.

And like I said, for MOST people, it's going to depend on what they're into.  I'd steer most visitors doing this one time / first time to Sandpiper also - as I say there is a lure to playing near the ocean.  But David is not most visitors.

Good call re the traffic though - which of course is another reason to go to Rustic... stay off 101 completely.

And Hunter Ranch is a decent call also, but is so far north he might as well push on to Monterey.  Another good one nearer to Santa Barbara would be Rancho San Marcos...

TH

[David_Tepper]

Others options might be Hunter Ranch, near San Luis Obispo, or the new course near Nipomo (can't remember the name!). I have not seen much discussion of Hunter Ranch here and have never played it myself. Any comments?

[Tom Huckaby]

Thanks Tom. Ultimately, it's about the fun. After all, this is a game. Fun always comes first for me, but was just wondering if the course (probably should've worded as course instead of design) was still worth playing despite the greens being punched. I hear the locals call it La Piranha because of how difficult it is. I'm looking forward to it.

It is renowned for being one of the toughest courses in the state... especially if the wind blows.  Now I'm not sure if it's worth doing if the greens are punched, but I hate playing like that.  Maybe in that case play Rancho San Marcos, or do push on up to Hunter Ranch... or maybe the new course in Nipomo (dammit forget the name of that one, it's been talked about on here... Monarch Dunes or something... supposed to be pretty cool).

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

David - that was classic - great and feeble minds crossing at the same time, forgetting the same course name.

 

[JohnV]

Hunter Ranch, in Paso Robles, is a pretty good golf course.  The two years I officiated on the Futures Tour, we had events there.  I played it once in that time and enjoyed it a lot.  The players also seemed to enjoy it.  I haven't seen Sandpiper so I won't try to compare them.

[David Stamm]

I hear changes are coming for Rancho San Marcos, design wise, because of past flooding issues. Anybody know anything about it?

[rjsimper]

David -
When and Where are you playing - These courses, though all north of LA, are not exactly neighbors

I've not played Sandpiper

Between Rustic, LaPurisima, and Hunter Ranch, I'd probably rank them:

Rustic Canyon
La Purisima
Hunter Ranch

And that's no knock against Hunter Ranch...I have a tough time choosing between the two courses.  If I could pair the front nines at Hunter and LaP together, I think you'd have a great course...the problem with Hunter is that the back nine tries too hard to be gimmicky (ponds, horseshoe par 5s, etc)

The problem with LaP is that the tee shots on the back nine get really strange - 10 has a weird cross-hazard, I think it's 12 and 13 which together make up a duo of really bad tee shots, the latter of which takes driver (and possibly 3 wood) out of your hand off the tee on a par 5.

The front nine at Hunter Ranch, but particularly the first 6 holes I think are excellent.  Both HR and LP enjoy rural wine-country type settings.  

LP is the more difficult of the courses.

This being said, I do NOT think it's worth a special trip to play if the greens are punched to hell.  Not that the greens are of any particular interest, but I don't believe the design is unique enough to "study".  When consideirng LP or HR, you should be looking at which round of golf you'll enjoy more, as neither really merits a design study, and I think between the two you will probably enjoy the one that's in better shape a bit more - they're that close.

Other courses north of LA of which some on here have espoused virtues include:

Ojai
Monarch Dunes
Soule Park


I've not played any of those.


Rustic is aerating their greens the first week in October - it's aeration season in So Cal.

The fairways and rough there are in less than good shape...but it's still a better design and much more fun than LaP or HR...just a good deal further south.

[John Kavanaugh]

Rustic is aerating their greens the first week in October - it's aeration season in So Cal.

The fairways and rough there are in less than good shape...but it's still a better design and much more fun than LaP or HR...just a good deal further south.

Ryan,

Please describe the fairway and rough conditions...Is this a seasonal thing or what..Do you think it is a design consideration where they need to pull a Mr. Ed..

[Tim Leahy]

Tim:
My aim was not to compare and contrast the two courses.  I just do believe that a guy who's played Torrey 50-60 times will get very little kick out of Sandpiper... they are surely more similar than they are different.
And like I said, for MOST people, it's going to depend on what they're into.  I'd steer most visitors doing this one time / first time to Sandpiper also - as I say there is a lure to playing near the ocean.  But David is not most visitors.
Good call re the traffic though - which of course is another reason to go to Rustic... stay off 101 completely.
And Hunter Ranch is a decent call also, but is so far north he might as well push on to Monterey.  Another good one nearer to Santa Barbara would be Rancho San Marcos... TH

Tom/David, I have played Torrey 50 to 60 times, used to live right up the street for a couple of years and would still not compare the two courses as that similar. For fun and memorability, I would take Sandpiper every time. How many courses on the west coast have a green at beach level like the one you hit to on number 11 from an elevated tee at Sandpiper? Unique and memorable, just like the green that sits on a cliff as the finish of a reachable(?) par five on number 13 at Sandpiper. I would agree that Rancho San Marcos is also a great course, RTJ Jr. with a real California feel, barrancas and great views of the Santa Ynez Valley. Hunter Ranch is similar and about half the price. If the greens are plugged at La Pusima and your only making one stop between San Diego and Monterey I would choose: 1.Sandpiper
2. Rancho San Marcos 3.Rustic 4.Hunter Ranch

[Tom Huckaby]

Ok then Tim, you make a strong case.

I've played all of these courses many times (though none 50-60!) and I would disagree.  I don't find that much at Sandpiper to make it worth the separate stop, for one who's used to ocean views anyway.  And I really like Sandpiper.  I just like Rustic more... I think he will have more fun there.  But I'd surely send my friends from Iowa (except for Evan Fleisher) to Sandpiper.  Hopefully this makes sense.

In any case, neither would be a bad day of golf.

I'd rank them:

1.  Rustic
2. Sandpiper
3. La Purisima
4.  Rancho San Marcos

With no others mentioned cracking this top 4.  But I've yet to see Monarch Dunes....

TH

[rjsimper]

Rustic is aerating their greens the first week in October - it's aeration season in So Cal.

The fairways and rough there are in less than good shape...but it's still a better design and much more fun than LaP or HR...just a good deal further south.

Ryan,

Please describe the fairway and rough conditions...Is this a seasonal thing or what..Do you think it is a design consideration where they need to pull a Mr. Ed..

I'm no agronomy expert...I couldn't even tell you what kind of grass it is...but the fairways are patchy in many spots and the rough suffers the same plight.  It was a hot summer, so I don't know if that had anything to do with it at all and have not the knowledge to even venture a guess as to why this is so.

There are areas (not immediately in play) where what was once grass is now sand and desert hardpan (right of 13th fairway, for example)

The greens are still fine, and the collars in most areas better than one might guess given the decline in conditions elsewhere on the course.  We're not talking about Apache Stronghold type issues here (haven't been, but have heard over and over again) but as a greenskeeper.org surveyor, I'd be hard pressed to rate the fairway and rough conditions above a 6.  

The only reason they'd get a 6 at all is because in the areas where the turf is good, it's still quite good.  Kinda like John Daly's game...at it's best, it's excellent, tough to beat, and one of the best around...but at it's worst, it's a train wreck that would make a three-legged gopher cringe.

Still much better than mud/clay fairways and manicured rough comprised solely of nicely cropped kikuyu.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ryan,

Thanks bunches..I had no idea greenskeeper.org surveyors even existed.

[Tom Huckaby]

This does bring up an issue... my take on Rustic is based on playing it a year and a half ago, and not since... If conditions have deteriorated that does change things.  After all, the game is meant to be played.  From Ryan's post it does sound like it's not that bad, so my take remains.  But this is not good news... and we've been hearing it for awhile now.

[rjsimper]

There aren't many of us, but it's one of the best sources of info for Southern California public golf information (and increasingly moreso for Central and Northern...along with Southern Nevada), particularly recent conditions.

[David Stamm]

ryan, I couldn't agree more w/ you about greenskeeper.org. Great website. I refer to it all the time. Has saved me a few times w/ aeration alerts.

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