The Broadmoor

[BCrosby]

I played The Broadmoor last weekend and would like to hear from anyone that might know a little about its history.

For those who have never played it, The Broadmoor has 36 holes, 18 designed by Ross, 18 by RTJ. Resort guests don't play it that way, however. Each of the two courses (East and West) are, roughly, half Ross and half RTJ. The dividing line in a road through the middle of the property.

The Broadmoor is a fascinating case study in the differences between the Golden Age and the Dark Ages. Ross's more gentle, suble lay-out, his bunkers built into (not on) various land forms are a striking contrast with RTJ's holes.

RTJ was given more elevation changes to deal with, his playing corridors are more narrow, and he used a lot more water. I'm beginning to see a pattern in RTJ's bunkers. They are often bowls perched on mounds, mounds that wouldn't be there except for the hand of man. His bunkers are not built into landforms as Ross's tend to be. Thus they are much less natural looking. (Perry Maxwell's bunkers look much the same to me.) But then RTJ was selling a "modern" architecture that would be cheaper to build and maintain. And that's what The Broadmoor got, I assume.

I prefer the Ross holes, but enjoyed them all. The greens were as hard to read as any I've ever played. The views are spectacular. So spectacular that my wife agreed to play a full 18 holes with me. Every tee seemed to open up a new and different vista. Great stuff.

The 2008 Senior Am will be played there. Does anyone know what combination of holes they will use? I would guess they will play the Ross holes since they are closest to the clubhouse.

Bob

     

[JNagle]

Bob -

Ron and I played the Broadmoor a little over a month ago and your comments about the difficulty of the greens in right on the mark.  They are very difficult to read.  The Broadmoor will actually be hosting the 2008 Senior Open.  They will use the East Course which is a composite of 9-Ross and 9-Jones.  The 9-Jones holes on the East Course are better than the 9 on the West Course and fit the land more naturally than the West.  Ron has been working with the Broadmoor to reconstruct the Ross bunkers and add some that have been removed in the past.  The Jones bunkers are being reconstructed and cut into the natural ground rather than sitting atop the ground.

The East Course is completed and we are in the planning process on the West Course.

I will try and find more historical information for you.  

[BCrosby]

Jim/redanman -

Interesting that they will play the East Course. I would have thought they would only play the Ross holes. Was the Women's Open from ten years ago or so held on the East course?

There are a number of pictures of the old Ross holes in the bar. You are right, the original Ross bunkering schemes were wild. So wild I doubted that they were really Ross. Some of it looked more like Chandler Egan bunkering at Pebble circa 1928.

I hope the club will give Ron and Jim the freedom to restore some of that edginess, because it ain't there now.  The course is very sedate compared to the original. Just under the surface of a very pleasant course is a great course ready to be reborn.

There is a routing hanging by the door to the patio. Is that the original Ross routing?

Bob

[T_MacWood]

Bob
Yes. The women played on the East course. I believe the East was also the site for the US Am in the late 50s. I've always been curious about the original Ross design too...it was considered one of Ross's gems. Its too bad RTJ could not figure out a way of adding a new 18 without compromising the original 18. My impression is there were few holes lost during the RTJ remodel. Some of the most difficult greens to read I've ever come across.

[BCrosby]

Tom

The US Am held at the Broadmoor in the late 50's was won by a young Jack Nicklaus. I know that because his picture appears on nearly every wall and there is a statue of the man near the 18th green.

Talk about a resort milking a famous name....

Bob

[T_MacWood]

Bill
I knew about the mountain trick but unfortunately we played in a fairly thick fog and the mountains were not visible. The result was some of the most bizarre puts I've ever seen...puts that looked to break a foot or two left broke two feet right, etc. We were in a state of complete confusion. Once the fog burned away it got better but still challenging.

[Tim Pitner]

I've only played the West course.  I found some of the greens to be so severe that they were downright goofy.  Uphill putts where you had to get it past the hole or the ball would come back to you; then, downhill putts that you couldn't stop.  I'm not the best putter in the world, but there were times when I was at a loss as to how I would keep the ball on the green when putting.  I wouldn't be very excited about playing the West again.  

For some reason, I always thought the East was Ross and the West was RTJ--I didn't realize each was a mixture.  

Any report on the third course (the South?); I understand it was re-done recently.  

[JNagle]

The first on the East Course has Ross bunkering but the green was rebuilt by RTJ.  A number of the West Course Ross holes were modified (three or four seems to come to mind).  The topography for the RTJ nine on the East course is much better than the West Course.  All in all the East course is a fine layout.

The South Course was redesigned by Jack Nicklaus.  I have not seen it.  Ron toured the course and thought highly of it.

[BCrosby]

The pro shop tells people that the South course is the hardest of the three and warns off anyone who isn't a reasonably competent golfer.

I did not get a chance to play it. I would have liked to.

Bob

[John_Cullum]

I was out there about 3 years ago. The weather was not very golf friendly so I just walked around the holes below the road. I recall there were 19 holes below the road.

I didn't think any of the holes were that great, except for a par 3 hole up by the road. It played over a swale and had an incredible backdrop of the mountains. It may be the most beautiful par 3 I ever saw.

I found a ball and rolled it around on the greens, they were tricky.

[cary lichtenstein]

Bette and I played there about 10 years ago, our memory was the hotle was run down, the courses were underwhelming and the palmer course up in the mountains was so water logged and slipping off the base rock it was built on that they were considering closing it because of the danger.

I certainly hope they have spent some money and restored the hotel and courses.

It would not be a go back to or a recommendation based on our experience of many years ago. Have they improved the the hotel or courses?

[Bill_McBride]

The putting is indeed very tricky there until you figure out that everything breaks away from the steep mountains.  If it was foggy, you could listen for the bells, as the carillon is up there near the top.

I was told by the guys in the golf shop that the East Course was the Ross course, and didn't play the West.  I found the East to be kind of a hodge podge and didn't like the finish.  Turns out that was part of the amalgamation.

The South Course was kind of fun, I guess a Palmer design originally.  There were some tough forced carries (unlike the East where there were none) but not bad if you played the middle tees.

[BCrosby]

The South course was redone by Nicklaus a couple of years ago. My understanding is that it was a major redo that fixed many of the problems with the old Palmer course.

To be clear on the East and West courses:

The first four or five holes and the final four or five holes on both courses are the Ross holes. RTJ did 18 holes on the other side of the clubhouse from original the Ross 18. Instead of transporting people out to play that 18 as a single course, The Broadmoor divided up the old Ross course and used the newer RTJ holes as the middle holes on what we now call the East and West courses.

Think of the East and West courses as architectural hoagies. Ross holes are the top and bottom layers and RTJ holes are the stuff in the middle.  

It's all a bit odd, but as I mentioned above, a great opportunity to compare and contrast very different design philosophies.

Also to be clear, the East and West are not great courses. They are, however, in immaculate condition and fun to play. Especially with wife and other infrequent golfers.

Bill -

My sense is that they have recently poured millions into the resort itself. The rooms, restaurants and the rest of the physical plant are absolutely first rate. We loved our visit.

Bob  

[Sean_Tully]

Seeing that no one has been very specific I will throw in my understanding of the routing.

Old Ross course
1=1w
2=2w
3=3w
4=4w
5=5w
6=6w
7=16w
8=17w
9=18w
10=1e
11=2e
12=3e
13=4e
14=5e
15=6e
16=16e
17=17e
18=18e

I worked out there in 1996 and the Broadmoor was just starting to reinvest in the golf courses and bring them back up to speed. The setting was pretty neat and it was fun to watch the storms come in and get pounded by rain, thunder and lighting.  I think that I played only one complete round, the rest were all nixed by storms or the long hours that I worked out on the course. I enjoyed the Ross holes more they were on the better portion of the property and above all other things I could not stand the asphalt lined pond on the 13th. I hope that they have taken it out since then. Was that a feature the Jones used often in the early part of his career as the small ponds are prominant at Spyglass too?

I have not seen the work that has been done since I left and hope that someone can add some pics! The original Ross bunkering is way more interesting then what was there back in 1996. I hope they have access to some decent plans etc. I only have an undated scorecard that has a nice routing that appears to show the original course rather well.

The Ross course, in my opinion if restored, would be a far better attraction than what has been there with the contrasting styles of Ross and Jones. Considering the way golf is today(long cart rides to the course is ok now)it would be easy to separate the two courses to some degree(at least as I type this 1000 miles away and 10 years removed) and have three separate courses designed by the bigger names of their prospective periods. Is there any other Resort/CC that could say as much?

Here are some pics
I think that this is the old 9th green with the 10th fwy in the background. Current 18th green West and the 1st fwy East.


Pretty funny picture at first glance. Hard to tell which hole this is without lining up the hills in the background with a current photo.


No date, looks like Sarazen to me just under the highest point of hotel.



Tully

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I visited The Broadmoor last summer but didn't play there(it was a day trip from Denver) and was impressed with the hotel and the facilities. There is some real estate development going on near the hotel- high end condos, townhouses. I understand that the Ross course is open in the winter for play.

Here is Joe Passov's take on the new Nicklaus Mountain Course:

Jack's back at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs, Colorado
GOLF MAGAZINE September 2006

By Joe Passov
Architecture/Course Ranking Editor

It took 47 years, but Jack Nicklaus and the Broadmoor have coupled once again. In 1959 at the Broadmoor, the 19-year-old Golden Cub captured his first of two U.S. Amateurs. In July 2006, the resort once dubbed "the Riviera of the Rockies" opened its third course, the Mountain, a Nicklaus Design Services redo of an unrefined Arnold Palmer track. The result is like Jack in his prime: long (7,637 yards), tough and all about supreme course-management skills.

Just a short drive from the resort's East and West courses and, at 6,700 feet, perched 500 feet higher, the Mountain Course still has the eye-catching views, dense vegetation and rollicking terrain of old, but Nicklaus' version is wider, with less severe fairway slopes. Forced carries over native grasses, wildflowers and canyon scrub, and confounding greens (nearly every putt breaks away from Cheyenne Mountain, no matter what your eyes tell you) add to the fun. Most memorable are the slightly uphill, 472-yard, par-4 fourth hole, with its green tucked in the trees, and the 603-yard, par-5 18th with its compelling mountain backdrop. Welcome back, Jack. Good to have you home. — Joe Passov

from golfonline.com

[BCrosby]

Seeing that no one has been very specific I will throw in my understanding of the routing.

The Ross course, in my opinion if restored, would be a far better attraction than what has been there with the contrasting styles of Ross and Jones. Considering the way golf is today(long cart rides to the course is ok now)it would be easy to separate the two courses to some degree (at least as I type this 1000 miles away and 10 years removed) and have three separate courses designed by the bigger names of their prospective periods. Is there any other Resort/CC that could say as much?

Sean -

That is exactly what they should be doing.

Based on the old photos of the Ross course, a reunification and restoration of the Ross course would make it a terrific draw for a resort like The Broadmoor. That The Broadmoor hasn't figured that out yet is a sign of how out of touch they are in matters of gca.

I hope Ron and Jim will lead the charge in connection with their work there.

Bob

[Glenn Spencer]

Jack and Annika have won there, enough said.

[T_MacWood]

Sean
I agree, if it is logistically possible, having a pure Ross course and a pure RTJ course - two icons - would be very appealing and preferrable to a hodge podge of both.

[astavrides]

No date, looks like Sarazen to me just under the highest point of hotel.



Tully

Hagan, maybe? (bottom picture, reply #17)

[Sean_Tully]

BCrosby

What is the progress on the work going on out there, has it started?  Who is involved in the work there?

Interesting sidenote that Jim Barnes was one of the early pros at the Broadmoor.

My first day at work on the West course was to seed in a tee that was used in the 1959 Us Am on #17. It was a pretty easy job, but it was the historical significance for me that got me hooked on restoring golf courses and doing research.



Tully

[BCrosby]

I saw no dirt being moved last weekend. My understanding is that Ron Forse and Jim Nagle have a project there. I don't know where they are on things.

Bob

[JNagle]

The reconstruction/reinstating and restoration of bunkers on the East Course is complete.  We are cuurently planning the West Course which will likely have a different look than the East.  

Ron worked woth Landscapes Unlimited while they were constructing the Nicklaus course.  

A great deal of credit needs to go to Russ Miller, Director of Golf and Freddie Dickman, CGCS for the work being completed on the two courses.  They both could see that the courses needed work and pushed for the projects.  Also, hosting the 2008 US Senior Open helped push things along.