Spyglass: How many holes do you remember

[cary lichtenstein]

I was running courses thru my mind that I hadn't played in a long time, but played enough times to remember all the holes and Spyglass came to mind.

When I thought about it for a while, I said to myself, 1-6, was this a 6 hole course?

Wondering how others view Spyglass?

[Tom Huckaby]

I recall quite clearly all 18.  But then again I have played there many times.

Clearly 1-5 - the holes going down to the ocean dunes - are the most spectacular.  But there's a lot to love about the remaining 13 also.

That being said, I wouldn't doubt it at all if one-time visitors have trouble remembering the latter 13... and it's not because they are weak... it's because they are more "normal", being so much more parkland as they are.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I remember all 18 as well, but found 14 holes to be very memorable. 1 to 6 are so good. One can get lost in the pines the first time around. I would think of one tough par 4 after another with those somewhat similar par 3's and ok 5's mixed in.

[Adam Clayman]

Spyglass is worthy of analysis even if the style of golf becomes increasingly one dimensional. The greens, and the courses flow, are some of it's strongest suites.

The old 16th hole was so much more memorable than the stripped down version.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Adam is right on point.

[Eric Franzen]

I am sure that Spyglass is worth playing... but is it really worth the 300 that you have to shell out for a round?

[Adam Clayman]

Eric, That is a question I just can't answer. I'd have to guess the answer is No. Few places are.

[Aaron Katz]

1 through 4.  Don't remember 5 or 6 (was one of those a par 5 with a lake on the left?).  10 (but only because I bombed a drive about 60 yards short of the green).  16.  There is also a par 5 with a hazard fronting the green and a par 3 with a lake short, both on the back side.  I remember those, but don't remember what number holes they are.

I enjoyed Spyglass when I played.  I teed off at 5 pm and managed to finish at 8:15 in near darkness.  I only paid $75 (I sort of bargained with the pro shop).  I doubt I would shell out $300.  

[Tommy Williamsen]

I agree that the first six holes tend to diminish the remaing 12.   I remember some of the holes, I just can't seem to be able to remember which number they are.  There is a memorable par three over water and downhill that seems to play about 140 yards.  Is it 12? There is a long dogleg right that may be number 7 and I do remember eighteen very well.

[Tom Huckaby]

You guys keep talking about the first SIX holes... it's only 1-5 that are near the dunes.  6 starts by 5 green yes, but goes uphill away from the ocean/dunes and is distinctly parkland.

In any case, I've always had a love/hate relationship for the course.  Early on I too found not much to love about 6-18, and I've always hated the high price.  But as I've come to play it more, 6-18 have really grown on me, so that now I'm with Adam.  Not so much about the study - that's not my bag - but more that those holes have a LOT to make the play interesting - a lot more than one quick rip-through would allow one to see.

Of course the question remains how great is the course overall?  It certainly is schizo... and won't be everyone's cup of tea, as redanman exemplifies.  I would say it belongs in the Top 100 in the US, but if one argues against that, well... I won't argue too strongly back.

TH

[JESII]

Two of the dunes holes are PVGC inspired/copied (#2SH - #2PV and #4SH - #12PV) so of course they're good.  The rest of SH is mildly inspired hamburger helper.

Redanman,

Do you really think these comparisons hold? The general outline of the holes overlap somewhat, but they don't seem all too similar to me when played. I have only played Spyglass twice so maybe I am wrong. Is there any sort of documentation as to the aspirations of the architect at SH in regards to mimicing the couple of holes at PV?


When I played there I played it before Pebble. I think this may be a key to viewing and appreciating the course on its own. I don't love it, but I really like it. Boy, those first 5 holes are just awesome. The rest seem to be good hard golf. Nothing flashy, just solid.

[Sean Leary]

What makes Spyglass more schizophrenic than Cypress Point? Couldn't an argument be made that CP is more schizo than SH?

[JESII]

As is so often asked about its neighbor, if Spyglass Hills were in Kansas would it be regarded better or worse than it is today?

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

I don't find CPC schizo at all.  Even the holes that don't actually have dunes in play are never far from them... that is the dunes and the sea and the feel of it are never far away.  That's not the case at Spyglass... starting in the 6th fairway it is pure parkland.  Or at least I think so.

JES:  If Pine Valley were next to a toxic waste site, such that alll of the roughs were filled with toxic waste barrels and used hypodermic needles, would it be regarded as better or worse than today?

I find that to be an equivalent question to what you asked about Spyglass.  The fact is, it's near the ocean and dunesy ocean is in play for the first 5 holes.  Kinda hard to find that in Kansas.

 

[Sean Leary]

Huck,

Right but at Spyglass it only changes once, from dunes to forest.  I haven't played CPC but doesn't it change a bit a couple of times throughout the 18. Dunes to forest to dunes to waterfront back to forest. Bandon Trails would seem more schizo than Spy to me as well based on the changes from dunes to forest back to dunes.

Schizo just seems like the wrong word to me to describe SH.

[JESII]

I was wondering if that question would get your dander up Mr. Huckaby.

Let me be honest with the point of my question. A short time ago someone (I think Matt Ward) asked the question, does a course suffer or excel based on its geographic competition? In other words, does a mediocre course in the middle of nowhere recieve better marks than it would in metro NYC due to a lack of regional competition? I don't know, I don't rank courses.

I think Spyglass would be viewed in much higher regard if it were in Kansas. The ocean does not come into play there as it does at Pebble if I am not mistaken so your point is moot. I think it being the little sister to CPC and Pebble hurts its national acclaim. Now, if it were in Kansas they would have a hell of a time charging $300 per.

Don't worry, I like Spyglass.

[PThomas]

Sean - perhaps the issue with Spyglass is the fact that the change from 5-the rest of the course is SO abrupt, that one never returns to the duens and sea

CPC wanders back and forth.......

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean - Paul has it right, as I see it anyway.  The change is abrubpt and FINAL at Spyglass.  At CPC, the change never really happens... and is certainly never final even if you do believe it does.

Sully - we're cool.  I concur with every word you said.  But yes, this question has been asked by others many times, with different motives.  

[Eric_Terhorst]

Spyglass suffers only by comparison to the neighboring masterpieces.   Good variety in the par threes, water hazards that make you stop and think (#7) rather than just penalize, an awesome #1 handicap par four (#8), a couple of good shortish 2-shotters (#10, #17), and other good and memorable holes.  

Do I understand from another thread that they took the tree out of the fairway at 16?  Wasn't it Tom Watson who said "there is nothing wrong with Spyglass that can't be fixed with a chainsaw" referring to that tree?

[David Stamm]

Sean - Paul has it right, as I see it anyway.  The change is abrubpt and FINAL at Spyglass.  At CPC, the change never really happens... and is certainly never final even if you do believe it does.

 Tom, I think you touched on what I think makes people sometimes undecided on SH. Could it be that those first 5 holes leave players wanting more of the same before heading inland on 6? I do think there are some very good holes from 6-18, but I think that may be why some feel this way. The first 5 holes are kind of like a teaser and then it changes for good. Overall, I think it's a very good course. But I think some players think it's great because it's hard and then say "it's a better test then PB." Puuhhhlleezzz.
 

[Bob_Huntley]

I play Spyglass with a member... it costs $15.00 including cart.

I must say I love it.

No doubt about it, 1 thru 5 are exciting, 6 thru 11 are so so, 12 is an exacting par three, 13 a damn tough par four, 14 a wonderful par five with water right front to force you away from a shot at the pin. 15 a nothing par three but one that has ruined many a card in the Crosby.  The 16th just a shadow of the hole that it was when the tree blocked the poorly hit tee shot. the 17t and 18th, holes that can wreck a card. All in all, for my price, a great place to play.

Bob

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, I can see some of your point. But, if you had never seen PV or the other courses you cite, Spyglass Hill is impressive.

There are two other aspects that I  have not mentioned about Spyglass. One is the undulations in the terrain. Creating many opportunities for shot trickery and deception. Combine that with outside elements that effect play, like wind, humidity, fog and I like to think Spy has a touch of extra gravity. Requiring an added level of awareness to play properly.

What's your best round at Spyglass?

[Jeff Taylor]

Maybe this is more about RTJ than about the land the course was built on. Who can forget the 4 holes along the ocean? Why would we? They are beautiful regardless of where the inspiration comes from. The rest of the course is cookie cutter RTJ. Just like the trail in Alabama. Tough holes, all of them. Sooner or later we come to the realisation that it's how the holes fit into the land. Spyglass is a parkland corse next to the ocean. I can still hear the seals barking from the top of the hill on #6. The rest of the course could be Tanglewood, RTJ, Silver Lakes, or Oxmoor Valley. Who cares. He builds a certain kind of course. Not artistic but difficult. Sometimes both.

[JR Potts]

I play Spyglass with a member... it costs $15.00 including cart.

I must say I love it.

No doubt about it, 1 thru 5 are exciting, 6 thru 11 are so so, 12 is an exacting par three, 13 a damn tough par four, 14 a wonderful par five with water right front to force you away from a shot at the pin. 15 a nothing par three but one that has ruined many a card in the Crosby.  The 16th just a shadow of the hole that it was when the tree blocked the poorly hit tee shot. the 17t and 18th, holes that can wreck a card. All in all, for my price, a great place to play.

Bob

I always thought I LOVED Spyglass until I read this thread and started thinnking about it.  I can usually remember every shot I hit at every course I've played but I cannot remember details about Holes 6 through 11.  I guess that says something.

That being said though, I would gladly go play it again as I remember enjoying the course very much....although I didn't find it that difficult.

[Tim Leahy]

I am sure that Spyglass is worth playing... but is it really worth the 300 that you have to shell out for a round?

When you compare Spyglass with any of the $300+ courses in Las Vegas or Trumps PV course, I think it outshines those by far.