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TEPaul

Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2007, 09:19:49 AM »
Well, the incident is in the books now. The Committee did the right thing---they reviewed the tape, they questioned Austin on his intentions and they made a decision that it was not a stroke before Austin signed his card. That's the correct process. That's the Rules of Golf in action. I'm satisfied and the whole thing is history in my opinion.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2007, 01:42:50 PM »
I see no one has mentioned that Hale Irwin once executed a similar stroke (or not) at the 1983 British Open.  In that case, the play was determined to be a stroke.  Mr. Irwin called it on himself, and he finished second by one shot to Tom Watson.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:07:41 PM by John Kirk »

Michael Robin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2007, 02:45:27 PM »
While I can't know what was truly Woody's intent, let me just vouch for him on a character level. Woody and I were teammates at The University of Miami and have stayed in touch for the past 23 years. We hook up each season at the Nissan Open and play a round of golf in the years he hasn't made the cut. During this time I have only known him to be a stand up guy, who speaks his mind and unfailingly speaks the truth on any subject. He's working class, a great Dad and Husband. He also treats people as his equal and not as a second class citizen as so many of his peers do. He also puts great demand on his ability to execute, and when he falters, there is hell to pay to himself. He very quickly gets down on himself for not executing on a level that he knows he can play on. This was certainly in evidence on the back 9, with some disgusted gestures as he fanned iron shots or hit putts with tentative efforts. Knowing him, the putt in question looked to me as a quiet attempt to slam the ground behind the ball in disgust and then tap in. I'm guessing that he was doing all he could to not blow up in one of his "classic" ways on national TV and that this was his way of privately letting off steam. But, I'm not him and only he knows his true intent, it's just it would not be in his character to lie and do something dishonest in my experience with the man.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 04:10:09 PM by Michael Robin »

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2007, 02:47:59 PM »
From the camera angle there is no way you can speculate that that was a stroke. I don't know why Johnny made such a big deal with that move when you cannot tell if there was ANY forward movement.

As far as I can see Woody just slammed his putter down, behind the ball and tapped in.

Let's try to stay away from tarnishing a man's reputation just from a video from a far away distance from an awful angle.

Insinuating that this is "similar" to Hale's incident is not fair when Woody has been consistent throughout that he did not intend a stroke when he slammed the putter.

JohnV

Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2007, 02:57:19 PM »
The only person who knows Woody's intent is Woody.  If he intended to hit the ball, he should (and probably would) have said so.  If he didn't, he didn't.

In the end, he has to look at himself in the mirror and live with it if he lied.

I don't know if he did or not.  I think that most professional golfers would have admitted it if they were intending to hit the ball.  I will definitely give him a large benefit of doubt.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 02:57:39 PM by John Vander Borght »

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2007, 03:52:05 PM »
I see no one has mentioned that Hale Irwin once executed a similar stroke (or not) at the 1983 British Open.  In that case, the play was determined to be a stroke.  Mr. Irwin called it on himself, and he finished second by one shot to Tom Watson.

As I recall the Hale Irwin incident, he reached across the hole with the putter, and then the putter actually went over the ball back towards the hole.  It was a pure whiff, and I do not think there was any doubt that it was a stroke.

I did see on The Golf Channel comments from both Austin and Woods.  Austin stated that he stomped the putter down behind the ball without any intention for that movement to be a stroke, that he then lifted the putter and hit the ball into the hole.  Tiger stated that the first movement to his eye clearly was not a stroke.

As we know from a variety of previous discussions, pictures - by photo or by TV - can result in distorted images of reality.  Hard to disagree with the two players at the actual scene.  Tiger responded with a great deal of confidence that Austin did not take two strokes.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 09:02:56 AM by Bill Shamleffer »
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

JohnV

Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2007, 04:07:16 PM »
Tom Wargo did something similar at a US Senior Open.  I think it was at Olympia Fields in 1997.  As I recall, the USGA definitely felt the evidence in his case was that it was an attempt at a stroke and penalized him, even though he said it wasn't.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2007, 04:19:31 PM »
It's one of golf's idiosyncrasies that when this type of stuff happens to me, other golfer's in the group always try not to count it.

One guy never writes down the penalty, and then accuses me of bagging, for reporting the accurate score.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2007, 08:09:43 PM »
OK, I watched the YouTube video again, and feel my comments are in error.  I should not have been so quick to pass judgement.  I have edited my initial post to remove the final sentence, and I apologize to those I may have offended.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 12:29:43 AM by John Kirk »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2007, 08:34:35 PM »
Michael R,
   Thank you for the insight on your friend.

It is good to hear that Woody and Tiger both talked about the incident on Golf Channel and didn't think  it was a stroke.  
In the replay from the angle seen on TV it certainly looked like one, but apparently the angle of view was misleading.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do I know....
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2007, 10:20:40 PM »
I believe Irwin was upset that he left his putt short, on the lip, and casually walked up to the ball and swiped at it to tap it in, and whiffed. He quickly tapped it in the second attempt. There was little question that he physically moved his putter at the ball, and then above it, ergo a whiff.

Austin's looked a bit different, and not as clear to me as being a stroke.