Talking Stick and ... what else?

[Tim Taylor]

Business travel in October will have me in Scottsdale. I think I can squeeze two days of golf around this trip. What else is interesting besides Talking Stick? My parameters are:

Wthin a reasonable cab/shuttle distance from the Phoenecian (won't have a rental car).
Less than $200. Hoping to play 36 a day and hoping to do the second 18 at replay rates.

We-Ko-Pa?

Even though we're staying at Phoenecian, no interest in playing there. It's the only place I've played in AZ before and it was nothing special at all.

Tim

[Steve_ Shaffer]

October is overseeding time in Arizona. Wherever you play, call first to find out if they will be open for play. It's no fun either to play a course that's open after recent overseeding. Here is the schedule:

www.azgolf.org/images/home/2006_Overseed_Schedule.pdf

Rates are lower because of overseeding.

[Ryan Farrow]

Every time I play a course out here I ask myself the same question. Frankly I don't know what else. I would say Troon North but the rates there will be above 300.

[Rick Shefchik]

Not to hijack Tim's thread, but I've got similar questions. I'll be staying at the Westin Kierland in Scottsdale in mid-December, with two rounds possible. Talking Stick and -- the Kierland? Someplace else? Is overseeding still a concern that time of year?

[Jesse Jones]

Never, under any circumstances, should you play Kierland.

[Evan_Green]

If you're going to Talking Stick, try to play both courses there - the South has some excellent holes as well. They will let you do a replay and play the other course than the one you played in the morning.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Rick

Mid- December should be fine.After overseeding it usually takes a few weeks for the greens to speed up. I've been there in mid- November and my experience has been that it depends on the course.

Before Christmas is the "shoulder season" there and rates are lower than "prime time" but not as low as summer.

Try www.golf602.com for lower than rack rates. Unfortunately, Talking Stick and WeKoPa do not participate.

For an alternative/addition to Talking Stick, I would suggest Papago, the Phoenix muni. I played there in April and it was in good condition,fun, walkable and less than $50.

The new course by C&C at WeKoPa doesn't open until some time in December. Depending on when you're there, you could get lucky.

Steve

[Tim Taylor]

Fellas, thanks for the heads up on the overseeding schedule and Steve, thanks for the PDF with all the dates.

Talking Stick North will be closed but South will be open during my visit.

Anyone else have course suggestions? NOT seeking access to private clubs, just don't have much knowledge of what's out there and that area rarely gets discussed here.

Tim

[Bill_McBride]

You probably should get a rental car as it's a long way from the Phoenician to Talking Stick and We-ko-pa.

I'd recommend the Wigwam Gold course which was recently remodeled / renovated to great effect by Forrest Richardson.  It's really fun, some great stonework, lots of contour in the greens.  It's on the opposite end of town, far west, so without a rental car.......

[Paul Payne]

Jesse,

Just curious about your feeling on Kierland. I've stayed there a few times and while I don't think the courses there are really impressive I'm not sure I'd qualify them as horrible. They seem to me a bit mundane. I usually play my first round there to dust out the cobwebs and then move on somewhere else. What makes them so terrible in your eyes?

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tim,

         Some public course recommendations.. Longbow (Mesa), Las Sendas (Mesa), Whirlwind (2 courses) and Wildfire (Scottsdale).  I would check for overseeding.

I haven't played the Wigwam course but I hear good things about the remodel.

[Aaron Katz]

Come on guys, there is a lot of good golf out in Arizona.  

I highly enjoyed the Faldo course at Wildfire.  It has an Australian type look, and the bunker placements are random and inspired, IMO.  Lots of great options off the tee and the conditions should be firm.

Raven at South Mountain is an interesting track, albeit at the south end of Phoenix.  They have cheap rates sometimes.  It's not a desert course -- they transplanted some pines out there.  The greens are quick and fairly undulating.  A solid Gary Panks track.

I've heard good things about Whirlwind, and it's not super expensive.  That's also on the south side of town.  

Papago is a good muni, but the conditions are less than inspiring.  Usually quite firm, however, and the green undulations are actually very well done and difficult.  

I hated Las Sendas overall, but it has some fun holes (like the Par 5 ninth, or is the 18th, which is a gambling hole with two shots over water).  Apache Stronghold in Globe isn't that far from Scottsdale, is it?

[Bill_McBride]

Apache Stronghold in Globe isn't that far from Scottsdale, is it?

Ninety minutes and a beautiful drive through desert transitioning into high desert mountaineous terrain.  There have been a couple of reports of improved conditions lately.  The course is super and fun, a lot of quirk combined with beefy par 4s.  

Don't bother taking your tux for the casino.  

[Ryan Farrow]

Apache Stronghold in Globe isn't that far from Scottsdale, is it?

Ninety minutes and a beautiful drive through desert transitioning into high desert mountaineous terrain.  There have been a couple of reports of improved conditions lately.  The course is super and fun, a lot of quirk combined with beefy par 4s.  

Don't bother taking your tux for the casino.  

Looks like I will have to take my first trip up to AS in a few weeks.

I almost forgot about the Wildfire Faldo course, you should definitely give it a visit. Someone mentioned the Raven. Although the course has some pretty nice strategic options the place gets very boring and repetitive. Not too mentioned how over landscaped the course is.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Another good suggestion in the West Valley besides Wigwam Gold is Raven at Verrado.

My impression of the conditions at Apache Stronghold from other posts is that they are better there in the summer than in the winter.

[Tim Taylor]

Thanks guys - after looking over the suggestions I think I'm gonna try for Talking Stick and the Faldo course.

I'll post pics and impressions when I get back.

Tim

[Michael Simes]

I played Apache in June, and I can't echo the reports of improved conditions (or, rather, if they were improved, I would have hated to play it prior to June).  Considering that we played in 109-degree heat in a spot where it can't rain too much, I was very disappointed with how slow and soft the course played.  I very much enjoyed the layout.  Some of the vistas from the tip tees are really quite remarkable, and really toy with your depth perception on your drives.  The par 5s were some of the best I've played in a long time.  I can't imagine it was intended to play the way it played on that day.

Contrast that to our rounds at Talking Stick (North and South) just two days later, where the conditions were very fast and firm.  It was a different (and much more enjoyable game) on that day.