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Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #125 on: September 20, 2006, 02:55:21 PM »
Gib:  excellent post - should be required reading for those who want to denigrate USC, but more importantly for those poseurs who call themselves ND fans.

Just a few notes:

It was 11 wins a row... then a tie, then another win... so the joke remains correct, but let's not recreate that dark age incorrectly.   ;)

Santa Clara folks adopt ND like Angela Jolie adopts kids - it does tend to make me ill.  So good call there.  It kills me how those with no connection to the school automatically gravitate toward the Irish, and feel some right to give USC fans crap.  Hey, I'll take it from Mucci - he went there.  But I laugh at these SCU types.  And yes, I say this knowing full well I did not attend USC myself.  But my allegiance to the football program is lifelong, forged in the fire of attending games since before I was able to read the scoreboard.  Precious few Irish "fans" have this connection - in fact it runs about 95% bandwagoneers, 5% any real connection to the school or the program - and combine that with the holier than thou attitude, and to me it's extremely easy to see why ND's fans are eminently hateable.  And dammit I wish it weren't that way.... because the school itself is extremely admirable, as is the football program.

Too bad the fans ruin it....

TH

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2006, 02:57:39 PM »
As an ND season ticket holder, I must say that was a painful game this weekend. I'm still feeling confident that we will have it fixed by saturday.

Not suprised to see so many USC fans on the board. I'm hoping for you to stay undefeated until the Irish come to town. That will make the win a lot sweeter! I already booked the flights and got the tickets so I can watch it first hand.

Brian - so many USC fans?  I count two - myself and Gib.  In any case, do enjoy the trip... the games are indeed always fun events.  Just don't expect anything different from the last four years in terms of the result.

 ;)

Tim Pitner

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2006, 02:57:50 PM »
But, THE Ohio State University is #1 ONLY because they beat ND in the Fiesta Bowl last year.

The Luckeyes will lose one. I don't know which, but I'd hate to go to Iowa City this year.

USC is the best team in the nation and anybody who has a brain that has watched them should know this. They have Sunday players riding the pine.

West Virginia is very, very good. They'll play USC for the National Title. It will be either a) an SC blowout, or b) much like last year's game with Texas because of WV's style, but my hunch is a blowout, because Texas had Sunday corners playing defense and the Mountaineers don't.

Darn Auburn and LSU and Florida are probably the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams in the nation, but nobody will get that because they play in the greatest league in the nation.

A playoff would probably give you SC against an SEC team.

I'd love to be wrong, but it looks like this year's Hawkeyes team is not on the same level as Ohio State.  I'm hoping for a close game under the lights at Kinnick.  

It's way too premature to declare USC the best team.  They looked very ragged at times against Nebraska.  Ohio State made a very strong statement at Austin.

I'll second your thoughts regarding the SEC.  They are clearly the best conference, year in and year out.  It was an absolute crime when Oklahoma played USC in the national championship game instead of Auburn.  Come to think of it, it was a crime when OU went instead of USC against LSU.  Perhaps this Oregon game is just desserts for OU.  

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2006, 03:00:05 PM »
Tim - I have great faith in your Hawks.  And although I am loving the USC praise, pin me down and I too think Ohio State is clearly the best team right now.  All teams also have a long way to go.

As for OK, good call - just desserts from the BCS joke of a few years ago.  But then again, they already paid for that in the ass-kicking they got from USC the following year.

TH

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #129 on: September 20, 2006, 03:21:41 PM »
Gib, I am not a USC hater. They are and probably will continue to be my 2nd favorite team. However, a lack of institutional control is still on the table here. The agents, hangeroners etc are a huge problem in college sports. There have been a lot of wealthy young men star in college sports over the years. I have never seen the style and standard of living for college kids ever anywhere as the current USC group. What does his dad do? Does he really have the income to support that sort of oppulance? If not who loaned him the money so his son could live in style till he went pro? We have some wealthy guys on here. Do any of you give your son $10,000 plus a month for hanging around money? What college kid really needs it if his Dad was foolish enough to do it? This story is the red flag of all red flags. Actually Gib, most college require the players to live in dorms or in on campus facilities till their junior year. There is plenty of housing in LA, near the University for a lot less than $7,500 a month. It is not stupid at all for students to live on campus or near the school and grow up while in college in a college atmosphere. It is sad when we forget the difference between post collegiant life and during school. there is more to get out of college than fine tuning your body for the pros. LA is so big that the only real spot light is on Hollywood and certainly not college sports, USC or UCLA. UCLA by the by is at least in the right neighborhood. You have a much better chance of going to the store without fanfare in LA as Reggie Bush, than you do in Athens Georgia as Hershall Walker, Or Gainsville Florida as Steve Spurier or Austin Texas as Vince Young who were equal to or great celebs during their moment in the sun. Reggie Bush is the toast of NOLA right now and he can go 80% of the places in town without anyone noticing him. The same goes for Leinart in Phoenix. Now Shaq was a slightly different story because of his size and even he would walk down the street outside my office 20 Friday afternoons a year while in college for downtown festivals without anything more than 10 or 20 kids getting autographs and a few taking pictures. Shaq loved the girls at ULL for some reason and hung out here a bunch. Blowing smoke like there have not ever been great athletes other places to justify what by any definition is a lack of institution control is not going to fly by me.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 03:23:49 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #130 on: September 20, 2006, 03:26:40 PM »
John:

You have been the the USC campus, right?  It's right up the street from the Colosseum...

If you have, then you wouldn't be questioning why anyone with any money does not live there, or very nearby.  Gib can talk to this better - but there's only so much room in the dorms, and off-campus close is just not safe.

Of course the Leinarts went a bit too far... but are you sure about these dollar figures, btw?

As for institutional control, well... I trust Pete Caroll.  And things do seem a little wild - IF WHAT THE MEDIA REPORTS is to be believed.  I don't think it's nearly what you say...

TH

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #131 on: September 20, 2006, 03:54:19 PM »
Tom, I hope not, for the big problems in college sports really did impact life at those schools for many years. The facts probably will come out. We are just repeating what is on the table now. However, to act like this is no big deal is not real either. It is a huge deal until addressed or blown off by the NCAA and/or Feds on tax issues. You are correct about limitations in the USC area. I was trying to talk about college life in general.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2006, 03:57:18 PM »
Tiger - well of course I am with you if you want to make this about college life in general, and what's become of college football.  BUT... your USC examples I just do continue to find issues with.

TH

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2006, 06:11:03 PM »
Tom, I am waiting for some of our wealthy guys to post they give their children 10,000 plus a month for pocket money. One will be hard pressed to find many either. I know some pretty wealthy guys, 100 million types, and I know they do not replentish the accounts like that. I am sure there are examples of conspicuous consumption and garish spending everywhere. I am sure Rodney's character in caddie shack would have done so by example. Would it be fair to call Leinart's Dad that guy?

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2006, 06:39:05 PM »
From what I heard - which I believe knowing the area where they lived - the Leinarts were pretty well off.  But, I doubt Leinart Sr. is anything like the great Al Crzyvk (apologies to shivas for spelling that wrong).  But then again, who is?

I'm still dubious about the figures, in any case.  $7500 per month is indeed high even for LA oceanside palaces.

 ;D

George Pazin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #135 on: September 20, 2006, 06:50:02 PM »
So who does everyone think are great rivalries OUTSIDE of what they normally support/watch?

SC/ND hasn't meant much to me since the days of Anthony Davis - though last year was a nice game.

Michigan/OSU strikes me as a fantastic rivlary (maybe the best).

Same with the various Florida school permutations, even if they have been lacking of late.

I'll tune in to almost any SEC game involving some combination of Tennessee/LSU/FL/Georgia/Auburn/Bama.

The Pac 10 is almost unwatchable, except maybe Cal/Stanford or USC/UCLA.

And yet the Pac 10 rivalries are far superior to the Joke 12 rivalries, even the vaunted OK/NE or OK/TX (they never seem to have good years at the same time).

And I can't think of a more useless stat than graduation rate. Waaaaaay too many variables to say anything meaningful (sorry about channeling MW there).
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #136 on: September 20, 2006, 07:15:14 PM »
George, I think you are close to on par. Any of the big 6 SEC schools playing each other take on bigger than life qualties. I have not been to a game in a few years that was as huge as the LSU/Alabama game was last year. Alabama was playing for everything they still think they are. They really thought the dead bear was going to rise from the hell below and walk the field. For a few hours the Tiders thought the planets were back in line and USC would fall to them like a lose bikini strap in a beach vollyball game when they met for all the marbles. Yet, when the sun set they were still alabama playing for 2nd once again and the only reason they would have to go to Pasadena was to watch a parade. It was a wonderful time to be alive in the state of alabama. I played golf the next morning with a wonderful poster on here and a Virginia grad resident of Birmingham. He wore a smile that said it all. One will be hard pressed to find a more Mich/Ohio State like game from the days when both were great than the LSU/auburn game this weekend. Those guys will barely be able to walk before today.I mean that in every way. I do not think Cal/Stanford is even in the same breath other than for one week the alumms in the Bay area put out flags and wear shirts. There is as much emotion as at any Vandy game or around Nashville. The I do feel Texas/OU has it too. There are some other Big Tens games that have lives of there own other than OS/Mich but I am at a loss for them now. When Clemson and Georgia played it was real too. The traditional game with GT like so many of those type games has lost its zest due to lack of quality on the GT side. We play Tulane which used to life and death when Mucci was a teenager. Now it is barely worth doing a little yell practice for or the always popular sending of the Gay and Lesbian Education week flyers for the Tulane Law school to their more Republican allums.

Greg Tallman

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #137 on: September 20, 2006, 07:31:34 PM »
One of the more underrated rivalries IMO is South Carolina-Clemson. Both have GREAT college football atmosphere and rather passionate fans. What happened a couple of years ago was unfortunate.

Oklahoma-Texas has always been a great rivalry

And of course the obvious OSU-Mich and USC-ND.... these two seem to be special regardless of recent history in the series, that is one team dominatng does not necessarily dampen the atmosphere but rather heightens the anticipation and venom from the team on the short end.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #138 on: September 20, 2006, 09:07:40 PM »
Greg i was going to mention USC/clemson but I am not close enough to it and South Carolina is so sad some years i could not bring myself too.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #139 on: September 20, 2006, 09:38:57 PM »

think about it for a second Reggie and Leinart (to name just two) were more popular in L.A. than Brad Pitt and George Clooney . . . .

I'd like to see how you would have handled celebrity and unlimited pussy.

Gib,

I don't know how I would have handled the celebrity.

But, I do know how I would have handled unlimited pussy ! ;D


Gib,

I happen to be a traditionalist.

I think every scholarship student and every scholarship athlete should live on campus.

They should be part of the fabric of the University that's given them an education in exchange for their participation in the University's athletic programs.

They should live with and interface with the general student population.

I don't believe in "athletic dorms" where they're segregated from the general student population.

They should live and enjoy the same campus life as every other student.  They should have the same college experience as every other student.

Doug Siebert

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #140 on: September 21, 2006, 01:29:12 AM »
Penn State
at Iowa (8pm prime time both team probably undefeated drunken crazy snake pit game)
at Michigan St
Michigan

I'll trade you.


Penn State?  I think you mean Ohio State?  You better hope OSU doesn't revoke your degree for confusing the two like that! ;D

I hope the game will live up to the billing, but like Tim Pitner, I'm a bit worried about the Hawkeyes after their performance in the first few games.  Granted, over the past several seasons our "September suck" has gotten to be something of a running joke, the team always gels in time for October after stumbling badly in September.  I'm just hoping that the gelling happens on GMT time not CDT, that way the kickoff will officially take place in October and we'll be fine ;)

Plus I hope we don't look forward to OSU and forget that even though we play very weak Illinois this weekend, since it is on the road and you can't ever take a Big Ten road game for granted...

I'll be one of the drunken fans in Kinnick doing my best to make it look like a crazy snake pit on national television, so I'm doing my part!  I don't think it will compare to the 1985 game though with Iowa #1 Michigan #2 that came down to a winning FG at the end for Iowa to win 12-10.  Talk about a drunken crazy snake pit!!  I've been to Super Bowls and they weren't even close.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Doug Ralston

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #141 on: September 21, 2006, 04:54:11 AM »
I have left this alone, because my joy at the stomping of South Bend is personal, a I do not like to gloat [much  ;)]. But a comment about a side issue must be made.

The horrifying calls at the Oklahoma v Oregon game are far from an isolated incident. Team have been going into PAC-10 schools and getting knifed by refs for years. Are you surprised that, unlike most deals when interconference 'powers' schedule games, the PAC-10 insists on homey officials. The stories are obviously true.

The PAC-10 said these officials were guilty of 'mistaken' calls. Who could credit that. The replays are BLATANTLY clear! These calls were simply cheating, nothing less. There is now way they looked at that onside kick and said 'nope, not clear enough to overturn'. I am far from an Oklahoma fan; MOF I do not have a 'dog in this race'. But I saw what i saw.

What actually gets me to comment [as if I nedded are reason  :P] is a comment made earlier here. I will not embarrass the perpatrator: "Great teams overcome bad calls, no matter how often or how timed, so it is not an excuse."..........! Why do people even mouth such cliches, like they make any sense at all.

When you have two good teams playing a single call at a critical time can simply turn everything around and be irrecoverable. Here; Oregon had to score twice in 70 seconds, and HAD to recover the onside. Not only was the early touch ignored, but the fact that Oklahoma recovered was ignored. But still it was not over. They must 'help' again by a pass interference call that boggles the mind. NO RECOVERY WAS POSSIBLE, even had Oklahoma been a 'great team' like mighty Notre Dame of even wimpy Michigan. I hate cliche platitudes like that! They are only ever mouthed by those not put off by the results. Betcha no one in Norman is saying "Great teams overcome bad calls, no matter how often or how timed, so it is not an excuse." Gaa-a-ah!

Doug

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #142 on: September 21, 2006, 06:03:12 AM »
Tom, I am waiting for some of our wealthy guys to post they give their children 10,000 plus a month for pocket money. One will be hard pressed to find many either. I know some pretty wealthy guys, 100 million types, and I know they do not replentish the accounts like that. I am sure there are examples of conspicuous consumption and garish spending everywhere. I am sure Rodney's character in caddie shack would have done so by example. Would it be fair to call Leinart's Dad that guy?

Tiger,

Next time you see Boston College playing in The South, I want you to consider cheering for BC and remember Matt Hallelbeck's quote in Sports Illustrated on picking Boston College over UCLA coming out of high school.

I sort of wanted to go to Stanford, but [then coach] Bill Walsh wasn't interested. I really liked [then BC coach] Tom Coughlin during the recruiting process. What an impressive guy. Then when I went on my recruiting visit to UCLA in 1993, the big TV show was Beverly Hills, 90210, and some of the cast was at a party I attended that weekend. That's about as incriminating as I can get about my visit there, O.K.? When I visited BC, I got picked up by the strength coach in his beat-up car, dropped off at a player's dorm room, ate in the dining hall, slept on the floor. BC just felt more like me.

We are far from perfect with two betting scandals on the resume, but they do a decent job of balancing.

PS. His Dad went to BC, so UCLA probably did not really have a chance.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 06:03:43 AM by Mike Sweeney »

T_MacWood

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #143 on: September 21, 2006, 07:44:53 AM »
Penn State
at Iowa (8pm prime time both team probably undefeated drunken crazy snake pit game)
at Michigan St
Michigan

I'll trade you.


Penn State?  I think you mean Ohio State?  You better hope OSU doesn't revoke your degree for confusing the two like that! ;D

I hope the game will live up to the billing, but like Tim Pitner, I'm a bit worried about the Hawkeyes after their performance in the first few games.  Granted, over the past several seasons our "September suck" has gotten to be something of a running joke, the team always gels in time for October after stumbling badly in September.  I'm just hoping that the gelling happens on GMT time not CDT, that way the kickoff will officially take place in October and we'll be fine ;)

Plus I hope we don't look forward to OSU and forget that even though we play very weak Illinois this weekend, since it is on the road and you can't ever take a Big Ten road game for granted...

I'll be one of the drunken fans in Kinnick doing my best to make it look like a crazy snake pit on national television, so I'm doing my part!  I don't think it will compare to the 1985 game though with Iowa #1 Michigan #2 that came down to a winning FG at the end for Iowa to win 12-10.  Talk about a drunken crazy snake pit!!  I've been to Super Bowls and they weren't even close.

Doug
The question was what were the remaining tough games on TOSU schedule...Penn St, at Iowa,....

mikes1160

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #144 on: September 21, 2006, 08:34:36 AM »
The Skunk Bears were good Saturday, but so was the vaunted Big 10 officiating crew (so far through two ND home games, 10 holds on the Irish, zero for PSU/UM)

No matter, we will take care of business against Sparty and the mind-numbing persona of John L. Smith. Then it's a run-the-table before we take on the Poodle and Co. Nov. 25th

Penn State had 3 holds and a phantom clipping call against them.

Try again.

Kyle,

I'll try again........here is the story off NBC Sports

http://www.nbcsports.com/cfb/97254/detail.html

3. Remind the refs before the game that holding calls go both ways
The Irish have been flagged for 11 holding penalties in their first three games. Their opponents: Zero.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #145 on: September 21, 2006, 10:45:18 AM »

think about it for a second Reggie and Leinart (to name just two) were more popular in L.A. than Brad Pitt and George Clooney . . . .

I'd like to see how you would have handled celebrity and unlimited pussy.

Gib,

I don't know how I would have handled the celebrity.

But, I do know how I would have handled unlimited pussy ! ;D


Gib,

I happen to be a traditionalist.

I think every scholarship student and every scholarship athlete should live on campus.

They should be part of the fabric of the University that's given them an education in exchange for their participation in the University's athletic programs.

They should live with and interface with the general student population.

I don't believe in "athletic dorms" where they're segregated from the general student population.

They should live and enjoy the same campus life as every other student.  They should have the same college experience as every other student.

Patrick:  I am with you on this all the way - and the way ND does this is admirable to say the least.  However, not all schools have this as part of their reality - USC among them - these more "commuter" schools just don't have the dorm capacity such that all students live in dorms.  So sure the ND way is the best... but that doesn't mean it can be done everywhere.  The schools I would chastise are those that DO have the dorm capacity and yet also set out separate athlete dorms... I don't get that.  ND does it right.

TH

Tim Pitner

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #146 on: September 21, 2006, 10:57:56 AM »
So who does everyone think are great rivalries OUTSIDE of what they normally support/watch?

The Iron Bowl, Auburn vs Alabama.  As a Big 10 fan, I grew up thinking Michigan-Ohio State was the biggest game of the season (other than the Rose Bowl) and I still sort of feel that way.  But, I recall Ohio State alumnus Kirk Herbstreit saying that the atmosphere at the Iron Bowl exceeded that of even the Wolverines against the Buckeyes.  Of course, Alabama hasn't held up their end of the bargain lately.  Auburn sure has.  BTW, Cadillac Williams--one of the best names for a RB ever.  I'm sure you could make a case for other SEC games--their fans are just something else.  

Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #147 on: September 21, 2006, 11:04:15 AM »
George's question would assume that there are some I don't watch.  When it comes to football, that list is tiny.

I must say I've never seen THE Game... that is Harvard-Yale... not even on TV.  I'd be very interested in that.

Can't think of any other great ones that I don't follow very closely....

You know another thing I love about these rivalries though?  The weird names for the trophies/prizes... my two faves are listed - brownie points for whoever can id the teams playing for them first...

The old oaken bucket
Floyd of Rosedale

Football does produce the best rivalry games too, by far.  The one and only sad thing about my alma mater dropping the sport was the loss of the intense rivalry game we had with St. Mary's - where we played for the mission bell, btw.  Basketball comes close, but just doesn't have the same feel.

TH


Tom Huckaby

Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #148 on: September 21, 2006, 11:07:28 AM »
$10K a month?

I got $50 a week from my folks (plus $300 per quarter for books, which I promptly cashed because I didn't read them anyway and just bummed notes off people), and I was getting more than anybody I knew on campus - at a "rich kid" school!  

Most people I knew were living on $20 and $30 per week.  That was enough to spring for food on Sundays and maybe a case of beer a week and maybe a record or two every once in a while.

shivas - your room and board was free?  Dammit I should have gone to Northwestern...  ;)

JB's claims about 10K per month include the dubious $7500 for rent for Leinart's place plus even more dubious $2500 extras.  Oh I don't doubt Leinart lived extravagantly.. but you can attest... there had to be rich people at NW who didn't exactly suffer in dorms, right?

TH

Tim Pitner

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Very OT: An Open Apology to Patrick Mucci
« Reply #149 on: September 21, 2006, 11:09:15 AM »

You know another thing I love about these rivalries though?  The weird names for the trophies/prizes... my two faves are listed - brownie points for whoever can id the teams playing for them first...

The old oaken bucket
Floyd of Rosedale

Like shooting fish in a barrel, Tom.  Old Oaken Bucket is Purdue-Indiana.  Floyd of Rosedale is Iowa-Minnesota (of course).  How about Paul Bunyon's Axe?  The Little Brown Jug?