[Mark_Fine]

Willie was born in Scotland in the late 1800’s.  He moved to the United States to pursue a career in the golf industry.  He was a golf architect, a greenkeeper, and a golf professional.  His first course design was done with Robert Foulis, a gentleman who learned the game under Old Tom Morris at St. Andrews.  Together they laid out the original nine holes at Minikahda CC in Minneapolis.  

Watson went on to do about 20 original designs his most famous being the Lake Course at Olympic.  He also designed Interlachen in Minneapolis which was later redesigned by Donald Ross as well as the #3 course at Olympia Fields which no longer exists.  California, however, was where he was most proficient designing over a dozen courses in the state.  Ironically it was the Ocean Course at Olympic that was supposed to be his masterpiece but erosion and unstable earth caused many construction problems.  He did a number of redesigns including work with Robert Hunter and Alister MacKenzie.  

Anyone care to offer their thoughts about Watson?  I’m heading to the Golf House next week to do some more research on him.  This group should like him as some people consider Willie a “classic minimalist”.  Willie believed that as an architect, it was his job to “find” courses on the land he was given to work with.     

[T_MacWood]

Mark
I've been interested in Watson for a long time. For whatever reason its difficult to find information on him....especailly his early years (Scotish years, he was from St. Andrews) and his later years. I'm comvinced he was busier than it is generally thought....for example I recently discovered he designed Toledo CC.

This group should like him as some people consider Willie a “classic minimalist”.  Willie believed that as an architect, it was his job to “find” courses on the land he was given to work with.     

Are sure about that? Where did you get that notion of his design approach?

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
As you say, information on Watson seems to be quite limited.  Anything you might have would be appreciated.  He was not one of the architects we covered in our Hazards book as we had to narrow it down due to limited space.  But we did do some research on him.  

That statement about "finding" courses was I believe from an article by Robert Hunter.  Hunter at the time was the green chairman at a club that Willie had designed in CA called Berkeley CC.  I remember seeing a similar statement as it related to Orinda CC but I can't put my finger on it.  

But I also have a digital photo of Willie's original 1924 plans for the two courses at Olympic and to me they are by no means "minimalistic".  They had some very elaborate bunkering schemes.  

[T_MacWood]

Mark
What are you working on that involves Watson?

From what you've seen of his work would you describe it as minimalism?

[BCrosby]

I spent a morning last week at Willie Watson's Belvedere in Charlevoix, Michigan.

A remarkable golf course. Some of the most interesting greens I have ever seen. Lots of movement in the fairways. The pro had a couple old aerials that show more and different bunkers and bunker configurations. I understand that some people from Renaissance may be involved in doing restoration work in the future. Even though it has hosted something like 40 Michigan AMs, it retains the feel of a close to the earth Golden Age course.

Belvedere is not to be missed if you are in the area. Heck, it's not to be missed even if you aren't in the area. Why it is not better known outside of Michigan escapes me.

I too would like to know more about Watson. Clearly a very talented guy.

Bob  

[Tom Roewer]

BCrosby:  Good call on Belvedere!

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
Forrest and I have a master plan/restoration/renovation project getting underway on a Watson course in Northern CA.    

To answer your question, a lot of his work has been changed and/or no longer exists so it is still hard to say but my initial inclination is no.  The problem is; you go to see one of his courses and what is there is no longer Watson.  It is someone else's handiwork.  It takes a lot of digging to figure it out who did what, when and why  

Bob,
Did you take any photos that you can share.  It sounds like a very interesting course and one worth some study.  

[BCrosby]

Mark -

As my son likes to remind me, my college and post graduate degrees have clearly failed me if I can't figure out how to use a digital camera. I'll keep working on it though. He assures me that I will get it one day.

The Belvedere web site has some very good pictures. I would think that it is a very important course for anyone looking into Watson. As noted, it is not to be missed.

Bob

P.S. Is it "Willie" or "Willi"?
 

[Kevin_Reilly]

I'd like to learn more about Watson.  Here is a blurb from the Orinda CC website about his involvement there:

http://www.orindacc.com/html/willie_watson.html

[T_MacWood]

Mark
What is the name of the course?

[Kevin_Reilly]

I don't know the answer, but here are some possibilities (in the order I judge the likelihood):

Mira Vista CC in El Cerrito

Diablo CC near Danville  

Orinda Country Club

[Jeff Goldman]

Mark,

The records I have from Olympia Fields give Watson sole credit for Course 2, and he and Bendelow are credited with co-designing Course 3.  This of course may not be accurate, so I'd be interested in where your info came from.  At some point, Course 3 had some wild bunkering, but I don't know if either of them did it, or Jack Daray or even Willie Park Jr. did, as he is listed in board minutes from 1920 or 1921 as being hired to consult on Courses 1, 2, and 3.

The 18th hole from Course 2 is now No. 9 on the South Course, and retains the same green contours it had in 1923, though a chocolate drop from around the green is gone.  For good or ill, it is still referred to as the Willie Watson hole.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Mark
What is the name of the course?

Bump for any additional info.

[RSLivingston_III]

Belvedere 1938 and now.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ralph,
I will almost be willing to bet that the bunkering in the 1938 image is Billy Bell bunkering, or at the very least, directed by Bell. It really doesn't represent anything that Watson ever did before. At least by what I've researched and what Bell wasn't involved with. (They were in fact involved . The extent is still a mystery. However Bell did do work back in the mid-west @ Wrigley's mansion somewhere in Chicago)

Thanks for posting that. It opens a whole other window I've been trying to look into.

[Jim Nugent]

In what ways has Olympic Lake changed from Watson's design?

Also, I think this may have come up before on the board, but does anyone have pictures of the NLE holes at Olympic Ocean?  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Joel Stewart is probably going to be the best source for that. Either him or  Tull.

However, Watson's original design was altered by Whiting and possibly Max Behr. (Together. They also did Capuchino (sp) together.)The amount of involvement is still out there, but it's probably locked away in the Oly archives until the guy up there croaks. (sorry to be so blunt, but preportedly he won't let anyone see anything they have that could be of great help)

This much is clear though: Somewhere along the way, lots of trees, bushy ones too were planted and grew quite fast on the Oly-Lakeside course. I would surmize that was a club-thing.

[T_MacWood]

Ralph
I don't how you did that but that is really cool.

I'm with Tommy that looks an awful lot like William Bell. Old photos of Orinda (another Watson design) I've seen looks like Bell too.

[Sean_Tully]

Mark

Glad to here that you are looking into Watson! I would be interested in what you find for NorCal.



I have seen no reference to Watson at Olympic Club in the papers which is interesting. I have him at a number of courses in the area but from what I have seen it looks like Whiting had a bigger role at Olympic then I would have  previously thought.

For reasons unknown so far, Watson resigned from the work at Harding pretty early in the start of the project. Once again to the degree of work done by Watson compared to Whiting is anyones guess. It sounds like work had already started on the project so the plans were most likely drawn up, it all depends on how many, if any, changes that whiting would have made.

Would be interested in more info on Watson as he covered alot of ground and he was sort of like Bendelow as he started out at the turn of the century and his work seemed to keep up with the times, more so with Watson.

Tully

[BCrosby]

Tom MacW -

Don't you mean the reverse? That William Bell reminds you of Willie Watson?

Bob

[T_MacWood]

Bob
Thats an interesting question. I associate that style with Bell, but perhaps  Watson should be the person associated with that style. I'm not sure what the answer is.

[RSLivingston_III]

The drawings in Golf Architecture in America show this bunkering. I had assumed Thomas hauled Watson to out west to utilize his bunkering skills. I don't have the timelines, but could it be that Bell learned his style from Watson?

[T_MacWood]

Ralph
Watson predates both Bell and Thomas out west....by a couple of decades (around 1900). I believe Bell's first job was with Watson in Pasadena, starting as a greenkeeper and then a construction supervisor (early 20s I think). However I'm certain exactly when that particular style began and who was reponsible.

[RSLivingston_III]

Here's (what's left of) the famous 16th hole.
Sorry about the compression from the long lens.
God, I wish the original bunkers were all back in.....

[RSLivingston_III]

Here's the 1st


Here's the 11th

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