[Brian Phillips]

We often talk about the greats of golf but what is the best place in America or Europe that has a golf course surrounded by real estate such as a resort or housing or both?

It would be too easy to choose places like Bandon or Kiawah, but these have ocean frontage,  so I would like to narrow it down a little and ask for your opinions on resorts that are inland.

Are there any?  Is Pinehurst the best or are there many we could argue about?

Cheers.

[David_Tepper]

Gleneagles?

[RJ_Daley]

Brian, I'd take a close look at the whole Lake Oconee area, including Reynolds Plantation, Cuscowilla, now we have Long Shadows.  It seems that there are a fairly wide range of housing costs, and all the golf is good to excellent.  There is still lots and land available in that area as opposed to many high profile places that are already full-up.  The climate is pretty good all year, although oppresively hot in summer months.

I'd look seriously at out of the way places that are more rural or not high on the radar screen.  New Mexico comes to mind.  They have decent golf most months of the year.  And, there are many places in the northern US that are anywhere from 5 months to 9 or 10 months a year.  

You ask in the form of resorts, but I am thinking that you actually mean destinations or communities built around golf venues, that aren't just seasonal or second home resorts buildings.  Or, are you asking about places like Myrtle Beach?  Because Myrtle has just about every form of development from resort big box condo or short stay rooms, to housing for year around.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I agree with Dick, Cusco is pretty hard to beat.

Another one that is of a  more personal nature for me, which John V. will agree is Salishan Beach. A fun course to play in a great environment.

[Brian Phillips]

Thanks Dick and Tommy,

I am thinking more towards 2nd home communities around the golf course.  I want to study more of this style of golf course because this seems to be what we are getting asked to do more and more over here in Europe.

I want to go on a little study tour of that type of resort or community.  I cannot really think of any really successful ones in Europe.

Cheers.

[Tom_Doak]

Brian:

St. George's Hill is the golf course I would want a home on, if I could afford it.

A lot of the recent courses of that ilk in America get rated pretty highly until the homes go up, after which they are all overrated.  Wild Dunes is the poster child for overdevelopment.

The best new development courses I've seen are out in the western U.S. where there is more space and (in spots) there are more trees to separate the homes from the golf course.  I'm really happy with the course we built in Washington, Tumble Creek, in that respect.

[cary lichtenstein]

I don't know what the best parkland course with resort is per your criteria, so I will mention a few different models for you:

PGA National in Palm Beach Gardens, Fl: They have 5 golf courses, 5000 homes, a hotel with about 350 rooms+a spa. Housing ranges from $150,000 for a 2 bedroom condo to $1,500,000 higher end homes.

Doral Country Club in Miami, Fl: They have 3 or 4 courses. alot of hotel rooms. Lots of homes but I don't know the details on those.

Reynolds Plantation in Oconee, Ga: They have a Ritz Carlton Hotel, 4 or 5 courses + a new private course. They are out in the sticks, no real city attached like the other 2 above, but they also have a big lake for boating.

Breakers East and West in Palm Beach, Fl: They have an old large classic hotel with a narrow short golf course and condo + a full length golf course about 30 min away with housing.

Barton Creek in Austin, Texas: 2 excellent courses, a first class hotel and very upscale housing, big mansions, high end.

[RJ_Daley]

hmm, maybe the Villages north of Orlando, or Green Valley near Tuscon is more what Brian has in mind.  

[Mike Nuzzo]

Brian,
Howdy.

Why study them?

So you can describe examples to clients?
Wouldn't you just design the best course you can no matter what constraints?

Are you thinking of core or loaded courses?

Murfield Village?

Cheers

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Brian

Try Golfweek's List of Best Residential :

www.golfweek.com/lifestyles/golfweeksbest/residential/

Of the parkland variety, I would choose Reynolds Plantation and Cuscowilla in Georgia. While you visit them, you could also take a look at TPC Sugarloaf in Atlanta.

[Brian Phillips]

Brian,
Howdy.

Why study them?

So you can describe examples to clients?
Wouldn't you just design the best course you can no matter what constraints?

Are you thinking of core or loaded courses?

Murfield Village?

Cheers

Mike,

Good questions.  Yes, of course I want to design the best course possible but there are always restraints on these jobs.  

I want to be able to sit in a meeting with the project team and make sure that I understand the whole concept from top to bottom not just what I have read in the ULI books.

We have all studied the classic golf courses and we can learn so much from them but we need to look at the whole picture of a project sometimes and not just our own little world of the golf course.

The golf course is an important part of these projects (possibly the largest carrot of all for sales) but there are so many other important factors that must be taken into account for as well.

Cheers.

[Brian Phillips]

Brian:

St. George's Hill is the golf course I would want a home on, if I could afford it.

Cheers Tom,

I was there three weeks ago with three of our clients showing them integration of the housing into the golf course as well as the amazing golf course.  I took them to Swinley Forest, Berkshire Red and Blue and St. Georges Hill on the last day.

I would also want a home on the course!  The house alongside the 9th was sold this year for 8 million sterling so I think they are just outside my budgets.

[redanman]

There's about 1500 on here, there are about 450 "right answers".  

[Bill_McBride]

I haven't been there since Crosswater opened, have just played the original layout, but I really admired the Sunriver Resort course I played years ago for the way they handled the real estate.  There were a lot of homesites and quite a few homes built, but it seemed they were all 50 yards off the property line so weren't intrusive to the golf course at all.  The homes sat back inside the line of coniferous trees and were very attractive in a woodsy way.

I'm sure this was because land costs were relatively low in those early years - this was mid 70's - and now the lots would be smaller and setbacks much shorter.

[SL_Solow]

I've always liked Pasatiempo

[Jason Topp]

I really like the way Harbour Town is set up with houses lining the fairways that are pretty much invisible because of the trees.  I liked it both while staying in a house and while playing.

[Kirk Gill]

There are three courses in my neck of the woods that have built or are building housing in a very nice way, but all are private, rather than resort courses. Colorado Golf Club is separating the housing from the main course itself, but a par-three course works its way in and amongst the housing. Castle Pines Golf Club is surrounded by housing, but the setbacks are well done for the most part, and the housing never has felt intrusive to me. There is also Pradera, where again the housing surrounds the course, but never feels oppressive.

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