News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2006, 05:40:28 PM »
 In fact, Tony Muldoon told me that they use a blowtorch on the faces to keep weeds/grass from growing.  Certainly the faces looked blackened at Dornoch, for instance.

2 days before you arrived Bryan.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2006, 05:41:43 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2006, 08:42:39 PM »
But, Tony - they were there, an obstacle to contend with, and original as far as I was concerned.  Maybe an outcry from the Old Course, but we'll have to leave this up to Rich.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2006, 09:53:36 PM »
Paul Turner:

We are going to do revetted faces for a fair portion of the bunkers at The Renaissance Club -- but, more in the Muirfield style of revetting the face part of the way up and having a slope feeding down into the bunker above it.

I agree strongly with whoever said that the bunkers at Open courses are starting to look like caricatures of their former selves.  It's because they keep revetting them higher up when they are rebuilt, presumably to make them tougher.  Of all the trends I've seen in preparing courses for championships, deepening bunkers bothers me most.

The greenkeeper at The Renaissance Club, Paul Seago [ex of Gullane], will do the work on most of the bunkers next spring once he has some sod to work with.  We'll try and give him instructions on how high to go, how much of the perimeter of the bunker to wall in, and which bunkers not to revet.  But, one of the reasons you don't see more of this kind of work is because it is so time-consuming ... the process will take 2-3 months to complete after all the other work on the course is pretty much done, and most architects are on to other things by then.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2006, 01:53:46 AM »
I realize it's mainly aesthetics, but I have to say that Paul's pics of Portrush are truly magnificent, and I'd argue that those type of sunken bunkers are my favorites in the world.

Back in the early 70s, my dad got me the JN book, "The Greatest Game Of All", which had a pic of the 18th hole at Muirfield seen from behind the green and looking out across the expanse of the hole.   The bunkers sunken throughout the length of the hole, including the greenside ones seemed to me like a minefield of cavernous depressions, each awaiting a misdirected or careless shot, and were akin to trying to traverse some type of ancient, primieval battlefield.  They appeared to have just sort of folded or caved in to themselves, as if due to the instability of the land mass they were situated upon, and also played much "larger" than their actual size because of the surrounding land was so tied into the "sink hole" bunker feature as to be virtually seamless.  I instantly fell in love with the primal nature and challenge that they so clearly exemplified, and the shaping seemed so much more random and naturally formed than what today passes for vertical, circular, and obviously forced "links" bunkers with steep revetted walls.

Incidentally, Paul...the term "rivet" is much more descriptive to many American bunkers than you might realize.   I can tell you of at least one very famous US course where the steep grass faces were literally "pinned" in place during construction, to hold in the combination of "bunker woll" and bluegrass sod.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 02:01:28 AM by Mike Cirba »

TEPaul

Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2006, 08:30:11 AM »
"I realize it's mainly aesthetics, but I have to say that Paul's pics of Portrush are truly magnificent, and I'd argue that those type of sunken bunkers are my favorites in the world."

Mike:

Interesting you say that. They may be my favorites too but only in a playability sense simply because they function so well and are so strategically effective. But aesthetically they look too clean and too perfectly formed to me.

From an aesthetic point of view I think my favorite bunkers are such as surround the front and right of Maidstone's #8 or Friars Head's #10, or along the right of Pac Dunes's #13, or most of Sand Hills since they look like they are just naturally occuring, and primarily because many of them are. ;)

Mike, today "pinning" or "rivetting" :) both sand underliner products such as Bunker-Wol or Sand Trapper as well as the grass faces on bunkering is getting to be too much of an SOP. I realize why some think it's necessary but unfortunately on all courses that use it, it is basically just accidents waiting to happen, both for maintenance depts and golfers. Just ask crack NJ/Philly region amateur golfer Jamie Slonis. When he won the Patterson Cup at Delaware's Fieldstone GC a few years ago he came pretty close to injuring his wrist on Bunker-Wol or a pin or both.

revet: vt. To face, as an embankment, with masonry or other material.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 08:47:05 AM by TEPaul »

Mike_Cirba

Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2006, 12:21:18 PM »
"I realize it's mainly aesthetics, but I have to say that Paul's pics of Portrush are truly magnificent, and I'd argue that those type of sunken bunkers are my favorites in the world."

Mike:

Interesting you say that. They may be my favorites too but only in a playability sense simply because they function so well and are so strategically effective. But aesthetically they look too clean and too perfectly formed to me.

From an aesthetic point of view I think my favorite bunkers are such as surround the front and right of Maidstone's #8 or Friars Head's #10, or along the right of Pac Dunes's #13, or most of Sand Hills since they look like they are just naturally occuring, and primarily because many of them are. ;)


Tom,

Tough to argue with that.   I'm all for the wild and wooly, abrupt and fragment-faced bunkers that you've mentioned, although perhaps I'm seeing a bit too much of that style in recent years.

While they work well on generally sandy, open, wind-blown terrain (as you've seen by the number of natural "blow-outs" occurring en route to Sand Hills, or along the drive to Montauk, for instance), I'm also hoping to see some more variety of bunkering in other settings, instead of the same style copied course to course, even among many of our favorite architects.

The pictures of Portrush Paul provided simply reminded me that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and the elegant simplicity of using little folds and hollows in the terrain to create narrow trench bunkers, or wider, flowing pits that seem to gather balls like catcher's mitts brought to mind how attracted and enthralled I was when I first saw pictures of Muirfield's bunkers as a kid.

Now, there's a open stretch of linksland, (as is Portrush), but would you rather see the bunkers there look like something out of Pine Valley or Maidstone, or as the fairway folding into sand hollows as they are now?   It's interesting to think about, and why I'm so eager to see some of Donald Steel's work at Carnegie Abbey.

I guess my overall point is that while we seem to universally love the rugged bunker stylings we see at a Wild Horse or Sand Hlls, or Pac Dune, etc. etc., I'm hoping that they don't become too stereotypical because imaginative variety in our playing fields is ultimately the primary allure of the game for many of us.  

« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 12:40:31 PM by Mike Cirba »

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2006, 09:14:35 AM »
Gents

Thanks for the replies.

Again these pics are from  www.golfarchitecturepictures.com (Frank Pont) and taken by Chris Hunt.

Muirfield which has a combination of revetted and the moulded look.  I guess similar to what Tom D is building nearby.

With many of the bunkers (see Portrush's 1st) I think the bunkers were once larger and have gradually shrunk and evolved to have the grassed swales that "feed" the traps.

Like Mike, I find them pleasing to the eye and they're obviously highly effective hazards.  Didn't Nicklaus have a famous quote about Muirfield's bunkers when he first saw them in the '60's?


12th


16th


13th  (remember El's great shot in '02?)


Minefield at the 8th.


trench sod wall at the 8th.


the great 6th.


Tom Simpson's bunker at 9th.


17th cross bunkers


Feeding swale at 15th


You know where those swales are leading at the 9th!







can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Mike_Cirba

Re:Sod Wall Bunkers
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2006, 10:59:28 AM »
Paul,

Thanks for some more great pictures.  

I think they point out very well what we're trying to say.  

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back