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Tiger_Bernhardt

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2006, 02:53:47 AM »
Joel, I heard somewhat the same thing you are saying sans Silva. Mike indicated the final call had not been made. I will chat more on this when I get home.

Evan Fleisher

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2006, 11:23:16 PM »
According to Keiser, a final concept for the forth course at Bandon has yet to be finalized, hence no announcements regarding that course's architect.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

cary lichtenstein

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2006, 04:36:17 PM »
I would think that Tom Doak deserves the opportunity to do the 4th course.

Pacific Dunes is just terrific and to give Doak another course would be logical to me. That's what I would do if I were Kreiser.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jfaspen

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2006, 05:39:01 PM »
I would think that Tom Doak deserves the opportunity to do the 4th course.

Pacific Dunes is just terrific and to give Doak another course would be logical to me. That's what I would do if I were Kreiser.

Cary,

I think this raises a good question about whether to slam a sight with a multiple designs by a single architect (that project in China with 8 Nicklaus designs comes to mind) or to diversify.

I think if Keiser can keep the quality level the same, I'd rather see the diversification.  

If Doak was to do another Bandon style project, his work would undoubtedly be compared to his previous award winning design.

A fresh quality architect would not only lend a different view to an already great development but would avoid the pitfalls of having a repeat designer.

Jeff

cary lichtenstein

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2006, 06:34:58 PM »
Jeff

It would also allow Doak to show how well he could do multiple courses and how diverse his talent is ala Pete Dye at Kohler
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jim Nugent

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2006, 03:25:58 AM »
What is the land like for a fourth Bandon/Keiser course?  Where would it go?  What type(s) of courses might we see there, given the property, location, and the other three courses?  

Jfaspen

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2006, 07:55:16 AM »
Jeff

It would also allow Doak to show how well he could do multiple courses and how diverse his talent is ala Pete Dye at Kohler

Good point Cary.

I think I'd still rather see Pete Dye given a shot (A NW version of the Ocean Course) over another Doak course.  

If anything, Doak should have been given the Bandon Trails property as from what I understand, it differs significantly from his PD property.


Dan Herrmann

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2006, 09:25:22 AM »
Aren't there some holes laid out there between PT13 up north on the way to the sheep ranch?   It sure looked like the beginning of a golf course when I was there last August.

Eric Olsen

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2006, 01:05:32 PM »
Sheep Ranch is north of 13 on PD.  The 4th course will be east of 14 and 15 PD.

Dan Herrmann

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2006, 05:21:50 PM »
I'm talking about the area North of PD and south of Whiskey Run Road.  I just looked on Google Earth, and a lot of the heather seems to have been cleared.

Tom_Doak

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2006, 06:47:38 AM »
Dan:

The clearings through the gorse which you are talking about were done when we were finishing Pacific Dunes -- the gorse was burned down so it was easier to clear then.  We should have cleared it all then, to make the job easier for whoever designs course #4, but there was no routing in place and most of the gorse has grown back with a vengeance!

Michael J. Moss

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2006, 11:01:31 AM »
Just returned from Bandon last night. Went with full intention of bringing at least one of those beauties to her knees. Had the advantage of three days of mostly sunshine and benign winds. Conditions were ripe…Failed miserably!

Damn undulating greens!

Secondary mission: Put my ear to the tracks and gather all the scuttlebutt concerning courses 4 and 5.

The two “senior” caddies assigned to me were great sources. To the extent that each were selected to caddie for American Curtis Cuppers and both have also carried for Mr. Kaiser, they seemed to be plugged in. (Why did I have two caddies? Unfortunately, I had to dismiss my first after I left a one and half footer short late in the round at Pacific Dunes. He failed to tell me it was uphill!)

What I now know for sure: Nothing! But I do have some more speculation to throw into the mix. I was told course four is a property where moving earth might be appropriate. No architect mentioned specifically, but may support the Kingsbarns group. Course five: a tribute course that probably plays into Mr. Kaiser’s interest in Macdonald, Raynor and the Lido course. George Bahto’s book certainly made it clear that the Lido involved the hand of man in building it. So could the property east of Pacific Dunes’ 14th and 15th holes (which everyone suggests is the parcel for the fourth course) be the site of the Tribute course?

Also heard Tom Doak was selected to do the next course. This contradicts my earlier reporting. Sorry, but it’s the nature of this exercise. To Tom Doak’s credit, Pacific Dunes is an all-world course on an all-world piece of linksland. It’s hard to imagine a better result than what he (and G_d!) left us to play. It is not unreasonable to suggest Mike Kaiser might tap Tom Doak to do an encore. I would also add my own editorial note here. Almost as much as playing the three courses, I enjoy pulling fellow Bandon golfers into the debate as to which course they enjoy the most. Given the fact that the three properties were not of equal quality, using three architects, each with their own distinct “style,” adds to the overall experience. I view the decision to have Pete Dye design all four Kohler courses a weakness, not a draw.  Wouldn’t you want to play a MacKenzie, a Tillinghast, a Macdonald and a Ross if they were all located on a property like Bandon (I’d like to finally give Tillie a crack at some oceanfront property!).  Mr. Kaiser, bring in a fourth architect!

As to the tribute course, if it is to be a Macdonald thing, then I think it would be logical to have the acknowledged expert involved: George Bahto. Perhaps Tom Doak’s talented group would be generous enough to collaborate.







Sean Leary

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2006, 12:50:33 PM »
I wonder whether Tom would be interested in doing the next one. I would expect him to not say either way on here, but I wonder what the real upside for him is there.  If PD is his crowning achievement ,then building another course next to it that will inevitably be compared to it may not be ideal.

That being said, I think if he wants it he should get it because I believe that PD was what took the Bandon complex into the stratosphere it now occupies.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 12:50:49 PM by Sean Leary »

Jim Nugent

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2006, 02:27:24 PM »
Michael Moss -- interesting rumor about Doak.  Other than that informative post about the gore, he has been noticeably silent in this thread.  

I would think if he IS interested, he must see the foundation for a fantastic course, that is also different from the others already there.  
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 02:28:25 PM by Jim Nugent »

Tom_Doak

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2006, 02:38:36 PM »
Jim:

There are all kinds of rumors about the next course at Bandon.  Most of them are incorrect, a couple have kernels of truth in them.  But it's up to Mr. Keiser to make an announcement where and when he wants to.  I'm just happy to be one of the people he uses as a sounding board for ideas, and I'm not about to break any confidences.

I believe, though, the last I heard, that Mike plans to build only one more 18-hole course as part of Bandon Dunes Resort, and it will still be probably two years before it starts.

Raphael_Larson

Re:News around Bandon
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2006, 12:03:55 AM »
I've never heard this mentioned before, but looking at the google earth aerial got me wondering, could a course traverse the ravine that Whiskey Run Road winds through and include holes north and east of PD and where the sheep ranch currently sits?  I've only been to the sheep ranch once and recall that the ravine is quite steep on both sides of Whiskey Run Road, but is it too wide to reasonably route one 18 hole course on both sides?  Could the sheep ranch land, the land north of PD #13, and the land east of PD #14-15, in the right hands, be fashioned into a course on par with the other three Bandon courses?    

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