If fairway and near green bunkers can't be dug deeper

[Patrick_Mucci]

should the fronting bank be constructed higher and steeper ?

With so many specialty clubs designed to get the ball airborne bunkers seemed to have lost some of their function.

Since drainage often prevents bunkers from being dug deeper, would fronting birms that impede ball flight restore the intended architectural/playability values to older bunkers ?

Forget about style points, think in terms of function and  playability.

Would this make bunkers more strategic ?

Would it be a low cost project with big results ?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Do you mean like this?

[BCrosby]

Pat -

I like the idea.

Flynn's greenside bunkers at Rolling Green and Philly CC resemble those you describe. They are relatively shallow. But they have high brows that often hide a portion of the putting surface from approach areas. They work wonderfully well.

Bob

[Bill Gayne]

Another option would be to rebuild and raise the green. Probably less desirable due to cost and it would really force the aerial game. Shape the edges around the raised green so that a poorly struck shot would roll off into the bunker.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

Sort of.

One of the features I really like is the configuration of the right center fairway bunker in the 10th fairway at GCGC.

It's relatively deep, but, the earthenwork that fronts it is imposing.  Ran has a picture of it, next to the directional avoidance flag.

It's fronting earthenwork like that that I would like to see more of.

I can tell you from experience, that bunker is to be avoided at all costs.

Unfortunately, modern day equipment and the angle of attack from the present tee conspire to make it more easily avoidable.  If the tee was shifted to the left, closer to the 9th green, the bunker would come into play more, although, today's equipment still makes it easier to avoid.

This is a bunker that could greatly influence the play of the hole.

If someone could post the picture of the bunker it would help.

The process to construct the feature seems relatively simple, but, the bunker would have to enjoy good drainage prior to the addition if it was to function well.

[Scott Witter]

Pat:

On a bunker project (rebuilding 70 bunkers) we did last fall at a club we ran into this precise situation.  My design intentions and sketches called for deeper bunkers in general, but when we got digging, the shaper and I quickly encountered a perched water table (and it was a really dry year) about 3.5- 4.5 feet below the surface.

So I did exactly what you describe/suggest.  I did it more so around the greens, but we needed to have enough material to make them tie in correctly and of course we couldn't get too far into the putting surfaces for cost reasons.

We could have, and it was suggested, to install cut-off drains on the high side about the bunkers to intercept the water table and redirect it around each bunker where this happened, they were all cuts into slopes and no fills, but this was also too costly and the budget was already set and we had to live by it.

Since we had extra material from cuts made to build the bunkers there was no sense wasting it and it worked very well.  I actually like the bunkers much better, they have a rugged sort of look to them, irregular edges and they also have the appearance of looking deeper because of the front slopes.

I'll try to post some pistures in the next few days of some examples.

[Jason Blasberg]

Pat, the bunkers right of the 10th green at the Creek need something, perhaps a "lip job" or perhaps becoming a large waste area . . . problem is that a Lip Job doesn't really work there stylistically.  

You'd appreciate Westhampton which as I'm sure you know has infant sized church pews with relatively large mounded faces that give them bite.  Aesthetically it's also visually pleasing from the opposite direction.  

I do think the concept of Lip Jobs is more cosmetic than functional.  

BTW, I can't imagine they have a water table issue in the middle of the 10th fairway at GCGC, so why the Lip?

[Kyle Harris]

Do you mean like this?

I know that place.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

If you could post "Before" and "After" pictures that would be great.

Fairway bunkers seem to have lost their purpose, from the perspective of avoidance and extraction.

It would be great to see the results of your work.

Thanks

[APBernstein]

[Scott Witter]

Pat:

It just so happens that I have before and after shots and I can do that...it may take a few more days to get this together so be patient. The change is quite drastic, but then there is a story that goes along with that too, but a good story

May be it would better if I sent them directly to you and you could post more coherantly that I can  I have managed to get the posting part down, but I have no idea how to put text with the pics to explain them and I think it would be necessary in this case.  Send me an IM with your email and we'll go from there.

[Scott Witter]

Andrew:

Not bad, that is sort of the idea and somewhat similar to what we did.

[Mike_Trenham]

Isn't the best answer to revise the lay of the land to give the player an awkward downhill lie.  If you can't go very deep to start then you can't go high enough on the green side with todays high loft wedges for the better golfers.