[Bill_Ryzewski]

Why split fairways here? ANY good reason?

I don't get it, why not just slope it severly from right to left?

You can even leave the 80* slope near the green, I don't care.

The split fairway mystifies me!

Regards,
Bill

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill,

Like an absudist, Daliesque puzzle with no answer, the 16th at Inniscrone defies all logical sense.

One can either choose the left side of the fairway, leaving a difficult shot over a chasm of despair to a hidden green in a dell, or choose the more difficult tee shot to the right hand fairway, leaving something only slightly less blind and difficult than negotiating the Grand Canyon with a seeing eye dog and a six pack under their belts.

Anyone with a logical sense for the game would hate such a hole instinctively.  

Anyone who understands that sometimes life is all about difficult, seemingly impossible choices knows full well why the hole has more than a touch of genius.

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Mike,

I might agree IF the 17th wasn't made of the same stuff (hardest 5 in the area).

The average golfer struggles, so does Inniscrone.

Regards,
Bill

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill,
While not an exact copy, the hole draws much inspiration from the famed Quarry of Merion, which, and lets make this perfectly clear is no relation to the Quarry of La Quinta. (God forbid)

It pains me to hear about Inniscrone's condition. Absolutely pains me. What a great golf design. It deserved better.

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Tommy,

Nice to hear from you.

Inniscrone is surviving and conditions are ok for now.

If I ever play the quarry hole, I'll enthusiastically share my personal comparison.

Bill

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill,
It's always great to hear and see you post, a friend from the early days!

I wouldn't neccessarily compare the two holes, but just look to see where Inniscrone #16 gets it's inspiration. Wasn't #17 originally a par 4 is my mind going? I know Geoff Shac felt that it would probably work better as a short five with the tee moved back a bit. that is unless they changed par or I have it wrong. (which is probably the case)

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Tommy,

The par 4 17th is still a difficult 5!

[Jason Blasberg]

Bill,

Like an absudist, Daliesque puzzle with no answer, the 16th at Inniscrone defies all logical sense.

One can either choose the left side of the fairway, leaving a difficult shot over a chasm of despair to a hidden green in a dell, or choose the more difficult tee shot to the right hand fairway, leaving something only slightly less blind and difficult than negotiating the Grand Canyon with a seeing eye dog and a six pack under their belts.

Anyone with a logical sense for the game would hate such a hole instinctively.  

Anyone who understands that sometimes life is all about difficult, seemingly impossible choices knows full well why the hole has more than a touch of genius.

My nomination for post of the year!!!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Did they soften the right side of the green? I would hate that if they did.. I felt that high slope was a lot of fun to deal with. I think we stayed there and putted around on it for over ten minutes.

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Jason,

Maybe post of the week....tops. After all, I've played the hole only like 50 times and Mike's strategy for playing it is incorrect.

Bill

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Tommy,

You know, I'm not sure if the right side was softend. I arrived here from the NCGA in 2000 and Inniscrone (Nat'l FW) was ripping folks off at the time. Glad I didn't join then! I started playing there in '03 and it has not changed since then.

17 green is still severely sloped R-L and I've never seen a pin R except for way back R.

Bill

[TEPaul]

Not only has the 16th at Inniscrone experienced a huge amount of controversy but it also seems that most golfers who do like it do not exactly understand the alternate fairway's concept (in the mind of the designer).

I will never forget the first time I saw the hole and played it. It seemed to me from the tee if the right alternate fairway was supposed to be something of a safe play from the tee it was anything but that, not the least reason being there was a tree up there that was somewhat in the way of a tee shot up there.

And so I asked Gil about that and he said the concept and intent of that alternate fairway was to allow weaker players or players in some kind of trouble off the tee to play their second shot up there as the safe play (since the approach from the left fairway is a bit blind and very dicey to that sliver of green). From up there theoretically they'd just have a little bump shot down to the green.

The only problem is a little bump shot down to the green from up there is extremely tough given the shape of that green from that area and the high grass steep bank coming down to it from that alternate fairway.

My recommendation to Gil on that hole was to take the entire bank on the right of the green and somehow soften it enough back up into the end of that alternate fairway area where it too could be cut to fairway height so that golfers up there would have the option of basically just filtering the ball down and across it to the green (even if that meant a very long putt from the fairway ala a second shot option on NGLA's #2). This would be a pretty exciting additional option.

And not just that but that alteration would also give golfers from the left fairway the option to sort of carooming their approach off of it and down onto the green.

One of the problems with that hole is the green is so narrow from one angle and so shallow from the other and if you missed your approach just a foot off the green on the right you were in such thick grass it was virtually impossible to chip the ball back onto that ultra narrow (or shallow) green.

[Craig_Rokke]

I'll agree that it is a very unusual hole, but for some reason,
I do like it. Could a single, canted fairway hold tee shots on this hole?
I'm not sure.

[TEPaul]

"Could a single, canted fairway hold tee shots on this hole?
I'm not sure."

Craig:

It probably could but would probably inherit some of the problems with playability on the next hole.

The point is that upper fairway was not really intended to be a tee shot option, it was intended to be a safe option for a second shot and I think it could work a whole lot better with shots and options from up there to the green if the alteration I just suggested was done at some point.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jason,

Maybe post of the week....tops. After all, I've played the hole only like 50 times and Mike's strategy for playing it is incorrect.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Could you perhaps let me know what is the proper strategy for the 16th that I've somehow missed?

The only sound one I can possibly think of beyond what i suggested is perhaps hurling oneself suicidally into the gorge between 16 and 17 to avoid what is sure to be a card-wrecker on either or both of them.    

The split fairway to me simply shows that sometimes our only choices are the devil or the deep blue sea.

[Bill_Ryzewski]

Hi Mike,

As Tom has mentioned the right fairway is a second shot option, it's unreachable for most us from the back tees. If a player can manage to bomb one up onto it they'll find themselves with a blind shot from a bad angle.

The left side of the left fw offers the best angle and a view of the green (much like the 9th). Also if you choose to end it right there and then your much closer to the edge of the abyss!
 

Other than that you're post is right on and I'm not sure I'd want to see the hole changed now. Just wondering why it was built that way in the first place.

Regards,
Bill

[TEPaul]

Bill:

Gil built it that way to act as an enigma.

There're a number of holes in golf, and very famous and respected ones too, that are highly enigmatic but their enigmas (series of options) function in some pretty interesting ways that often can create wide spectrums in scoring. Of course 'wide' infers both low and high!  

I'm not so sure a "safe" option that inherits the next option that's incredibly risky at best, will get the respect of most golfers and be generally condoned.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill,

The first time I played Inniscrone I drove it up the right side intentionally, thinking I was playing strategic golf, and believing that trying for that long carry would afford me some advantage.  

Some advantage!!  

I can see some folks trying to place their second shot over there, as is the case of a woman who I played with one time.  She was probably about a 20 handicapper, and after two shots, she had left herself up on the right hand fairway with about an 80 yard pitch, completely blind, to the green down in the hollow.  

She couldn't see a thing from the right side, so she just lobbed up the most perfect pitch you can imagine and as the ball curled over the lip (we could see as we were standing just short of the green in the gnarly bunker area), she was left with a tap-in for her par.  

So, in the immortal words used once by RTJ Sr., gentlemen, this hole is obviously eminently fair.  

[Craig_Rokke]

Strategy and options aside, what I like best about the hole
is the appearance of the last 1/3 of it.

[Willie_Dow]

Craig - The reason I like the hole is that I got a par the last time I played it !

[Craig_Rokke]

You've fared better than me then, Willie!

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