Old Course in Reverse - Who's going?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Please; I am not aquainted with the term 'Reverse Old Course', I'm afraid. What is it actually? You obviously can't play a hole backwards ....... so what ARE you doing?

Doug

Doug

Go over to the left hand column of this page and click on "Courses by Architect" and then Jeremy Glenn's seminal piece on the Reverse Old Course.  It was written well before the Links Trust had any idea of playing the course in reverse, and remains one of htre finest and most creative things written on GCA to date.

Enjoy!

Rich

I hope someone will take some pictures of the whole course backwards, The Old Course in its original form is a very interesting subject. I think the 'reverse course' thats gets played now is a bit compromised, there are several holes that dont seem right (certainly from its pre 1870 days), ie the 2nd tee to 18th hole, and the 3rd tee to 1st green. The 7th backwards i think was more played as the current 12th, the 12th backwards ie tothe 11th green really looks a great hole

[Bill_McBride]

Adrian, check out Jeremy Glenn's article in the "In My Opinion" section, all the details there.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian, check out Jeremy Glenn's article in the "In My Opinion" section, all the details there.

Thanks Bill, thats a great read. I think I can add a few things tothat. The original course pre 1870 never had the 1st green and the 6th green was just where the 12th part is now and there was also no 7th green where it is now, it was only the section now used for 11. I got this about 5th hand from Mr Morris himself via the Aytons.
There was also a bunker about 50 yards over Granny Clarks Wynd which came into play at the 1st as well and was hard to drive over from the 18th which I think was longer in those days. So the 17th on the reverse course and to some extent the 18th (from the 2nd tee) are not from the original course so much, which would explain the thoughts of the true reverse only starting from the 3rd.
Since the 1st and to some degree the 2nd only came into play in 1870 and the reworking of the 7th hole when Tom Morris, you could make a good case he is the designer. Afterwards the concensus of the St Andrews golfers were that they preferred the new routing, although many hated the loss of the old high hole which was from the from about the forward mens tee on the 13th to the 11th green.

[Bill_McBride]

There was also a bunker about 50 yards over Granny Clarks Wynd which came into play at the 1st as well and was hard to drive over from the 18th which I think was longer in those days.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, let Dave "Shivas" Schmidt see this quote.  

[Tony_Muldoon]

There was also a bunker about 50 yards over Granny Clarks Wynd which came into play at the 1st as well and was hard to drive over from the 18th which I think was longer in those days.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, let Dave "Shivas" Schmidt see this quote.  

Bill is right, on no account is he to see this.

PS welcome to the group Adrian.

[James Bennett]

The bunkering on 1/18 was mentioned here a month ago.  Shivas missed that one, so he may well miss this one as well.

Old Tom left the Valley of Sin as he built up the green.  There was also some bunkers that separated the first and eighteenth fairways.  These were filled in around the Great War.

Peter

I think Shivas might respond soon (IIRC, it was Shivas musing about bunkers on #18 following the 2005  Open).

James B

[Bill_McBride]

My Reverse Old Course application was approved!  Actually, mine and John Krystynak as well.  I still want to do "The Day" at Muirfield on Tuesday, 3/27, the day before the first round of The Old Course in Reverse program.  

So far I have James Bennett, John Krystynak, David Mulle, and Sean Walsh, in order of sign up.  We will need three more to make up two groups at Muirfield.  At this point the tee sheet for 3/27/07 is wide open.  

Please notify me asap by email (billmcb320@yahoo.com) or IM if you want to join the crowd.  We can mix things up after lunch if we have two or more groups.  I'll need your home course and index, I'll check out the deposit arrangements.

[Bill_McBride]

For those planning on or thinking about Muirfield, here are the rules and regs:  (Note: foursomes in the p.m.!)

NOTES FOR THE GUIDANCE OF VISITORS
Tee Time Availability

The tee time availability system is intended only as an invitation to treat, and is not an offer by us. Any request for a booking made by someone wishing to play on the course shall be deemed to be an offer which we may, in our absolute discretion, accept or reject. Any acceptance will be subject to these Notes for the Guidance of Visitors to Muirfield and no contract shall exist until full payment is received and we have confirmed the booking. All tee times and prices listed below are subject to availability.

Visitors' Playing Days

Visitors will be welcomed on Tuesdays and Thursdays, except on Public Holidays. Visiting groups are restricted to no more than 12 players on these days.
They must have recognised handicaps no greater than 18 for gentlemen and 20 for ladies.
A limited number of caddies are available, if requested at least 24 hours in advance. The caddie fee is £35.00 per round, exclusive of gratuity. Trolleys can be hired from the Official Starter at a cost of £5 per round. We have three buggies available for hire at £35.00 per round, these are only allocated on a first come first serve basis, to those with medical certificates.
Bookings

A list of the names and handicaps of all players is required before a booking will be accepted. Payment of green fees in full is required before a booking can be confirmed. Handicap certificates may be required prior to play. Once confirmed, any changes to names of the visitors will not be permitted, unless agreed otherwise by the Secretariat.

Green fees are non-refundable except in the event of the course being closed for play which decision will be taken by the Course Manager, in his absolute discretion.

Green fees for 2006 are £135 for one round or £170 for two rounds with a reduced rate of £80 for one round commencing Thursday 16th November 2006 until 15th March 2007. Visitors will be asked to sign the Temporary Members' Book and if they are staying for lunch and drinks, an account will be opened that must be settled before departure. Most leading credit cards are accepted for the payment of green fees, except for American Express and Diners' Card.

Green Fees for 2007 are £145 for one round and £180 for two rounds.

Visitors who choose to remain on the course in adverse weather conditions, particularly with thunder and lightning in the vicinity, do so at their own risk.

Play on the Course

Fourball games are allowed only in the morning off the 10th tee. Afternoon play will be two-ball only as either a single or a foursome.
Please note that Club Members have priority on the tee and therefore starting times may vary on the day, but any delay will be minimal.
Dress etc.

Conventional lounge jacket and tie must be worn in the Smoking and Dining Rooms. Golf shoes are not permitted in any of the Club's public rooms. On the course, jeans, trainers and round neck T-shirts are prohibited but short, WHITE socks are allowed with tailored shorts.

Photography is NOT permitted in the clubhouse. Mobile telephones are NOT to be used for incoming or outgoing calls or text messaging either in the clubhouse, on the course or within the Club's grounds.

Catering

Morning Coffee (£1), Lunch (£20) and Afternoon Tea (£2) are available, if ordered in advance. Lunch is served between 12.30 and 2.00pm. Afternoon Tea is served between 4.00pm and 5.30pm. The bar closes at 7.00pm.

Ladies

Ladies may only play if accompanied by a gentleman player
Changing facilities are available for ladies at the west end of the clubhouse
There are no lunch facilities for ladies but sandwiches and drinks can be provided in the Captain's Room, if ordered in advance
Shop

There is no professional's shop at Muirfield but we sell golf balls and course plans at the counter. A full range of branded Muirfield merchandise is sold by our licensee in Gullane.

Prices

All prices are stated to be inclusive of VAT where applicable.

Data Protection

Any personal data provided when submitting a request for a booking will be used by us solely to process and respond to the request.

The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers, Duncur Road, Muirfield, Gullane, East Lothian

This will be fun!  

[Brian Phillips]

I am now on a waiting list as a single for option 1 but will be coming out anyway and will go in the ballot if I don't get in.

Look forward to seeing many of you again..

Brian

[Bill_McBride]

Need a little help.  Dos any one have any B&Bs to recommend in (1) Gullane, and (2) St. Andrews?  The little inns in St. A have become very pricey, good for drinking but not so good for staying the night.

Thanks for any advice.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Anyone what is the name of the big old hotel overlooking the course (guessing 2nd and 17th) at North Berwick?  I've thrown the magazine away but they were advertising an excellent value winter overnight deal including a round on the West Links. Definitely worth considering.

[ForkaB]

Marine

[Tony_Muldoon]

thanks Rich can't see the Golfbreak mentioned but B&B from £49

http://www.macdonaldhotels.co.uk/offers/H30A_offer.htm

[Bill_McBride]

Bringing this up to see if anyone else is interested in a day at Muirfield on the Tuesday (March 27) before the Reverse Old Course event starts.

At this point we have five or six but only one tee time booked.  Please IM or email me (billmcb320@yahoo.com) if you are interested.

Bill

[Tony_Muldoon]

Bill I'd love to do this. IM coming.

[Chris Kane]

I might be able to accomodate 1-2 people in St Andrews - but be aware that on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night it can be a little noisy!

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Adrian,

Glad you enjoyed the essay on the Reverse Course.

When I wrote that essay -- a couple of years ago -- I never intended to provide for a "historically accurate" version of the Reverse Course as it would have been played in the past.  Nor did I aim to illustrate a purely theoretical version of the Reverse Course either.

What I did was to take the features as they exist now, and create my own version of what a Reverse Old Course could be today.  So I added tees, moved a couple of bunkers, mowed down some gorse, etc...  The result is, I think we can all agree, a really neat course; one that is MOSTLY based on the Reverse Course, but not exclusively so.

[Doug Bolls]

Jeremy - How accurate is your description of TOC-Reverse vs how they actually set it up now.  If I print off your essay, will I have a good hole-by hole roadmap?  I am the lead golfer for a group of 8 guys going to play Reverse next April - so far, yours is the only info I can find on the routing.  Any advice?
DB

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jeremy - How accurate is your description of TOC-Reverse vs how they actually set it up now.  If I print off your essay, will I have a good hole-by hole roadmap?  I am the lead golfer for a group of 8 guys going to play Reverse next April - so far, yours is the only info I can find on the routing.  Any advice?
DB

Jeremys desciption is pretty accurate of todays reverse set up. The 8th is played from c12th tee area back to the 10th part of that double green, 9th is played from the c11th tee, 10th is played from the 10th tee to the 8th part of that double. the 11th I think is played from around the ladies 9th tee back to the 7th. The 12th is the one that for me does not quite work, its a 4 iron lay up short of the gorse then a flip over to the 6th (this is the hole I think that was not part of the original reverse, I think they played 12 as is). 13 almost uses the same principle as todays 13, you basically drive to te same area as you do from the standard tee, but the angle makes it a dogleg.

[Bill_McBride]

Bringing this back up to get a handle on who has been accepted for the Reverse event.  John Krystynak and I are playing at 12:30 on the 28th of March on the Old Course and pretty much the same on the New 3/29 and the Reverse 3/30.

And we do have an option for Muirfield at 9:10 a.m. on Tuesday 3/27 before going to St. Andrews.  Anyone interested?  So far we have four plus Sean Walsh and Tony Muldoon thinking about the second group.  It would be fun to have eight and switch things up in the afternoon.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Bringing this Up Moderately Promptly.

I am now definitely at Turnberry the weekend before and will delay booking flights home until next week in the home of getting a day at Muirfield.

[Marty Bonnar]

Sorry to keep pulling this up, but no other way to broadcast the following info:

One of our threesome unfortunately cannot make the Reverse TOC dates.
We can make changes to the listed golfers on the booking, although it looks like the Links Trust will charge us(YOU!) £40 for the privilege. Still makes for a good deal at £240.
If you'd like to be the 'named golfer' and therefore have a guaranteed tee time, IM me. Of course, you can still just turn up if you'd prefer to save the forty quid (and maybe not get on).

FBD.

[Bill_McBride]

For Muirfield on 3/27 we now have almost two groups:

Tony Muldoon
Phillip Gwaith
Mark Pearce
xxxxx

Bill McBride
John Krystynak
David Mulle
James Bennett

So we have a slot to fill - xxxxx.

After lunch we will mix it up for the foursomes.

Send me an IM if interested.  See above on this page for the Muirfield details.

We are also getting together the previous afternoon (Monday 3/26) at North Berwick West if anybody's interested.

[Bill_McBride]

Sorry to keep pulling this up, but no other way to broadcast the following info:

One of our threesome unfortunately cannot make the Reverse TOC dates.
We can make changes to the listed golfers on the booking, although it looks like the Links Trust will charge us(YOU!) £40 for the privilege. Still makes for a good deal at £240.
If you'd like to be the 'named golfer' and therefore have a guaranteed tee time, IM me. Of course, you can still just turn up if you'd prefer to save the forty quid (and maybe not get on).

FBD.

Do we have a head count of who will be at TOC starting 3/28?  McBride, Krystynak, Mulle and Bennett from the post above from what I know so far.  Who else?

[James Bennett]

Playing at COT (Reverse TOC  )

Martin Bonnar
James Bennett
Chris (?Kane)

James B