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Jay Flemma

Re:The Best of Jim Engh
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2006, 12:06:10 AM »
Matt:

I think the best tenth is the 10th at Pradera...it saysmore on 311 yards than  most holes say oin 450...options about and temptation is huge.

Matt_Ward

Re:The Best of Jim Engh
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2006, 04:17:14 PM »
Jay:

The 10th is a fine hole -- but Engh has done better short holes -- in fact -- the 5th at Pradera is one of his best period for that type of yardage.

I'll stick with the 10th at Red Hawk Ridge for now.


Andy Troeger

Re:The Best of Jim Engh
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2006, 07:25:52 PM »
Unfortunately Tullymore is the only Engh course I've played, so while there are many fine holes, I can't really help in the comparative portion of this exercise.

From the images I've seen of his courses out West I can't wait to get out there to try them sometime. The next trip that way though will be Albuquerque, but hopefully Colorado will be in the not too distant future.

Jay Flemma

Re:The Best of Jim Engh
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2006, 08:41:49 AM »
Jim himself and Tim Hartnett both think that 10 and 17 are their faves on the whole course.  After I saw the holes, I agreed.  10 has a pushed up green that repels low approaches into the devilish shaved chipping areas.  From the tee, the beckons like a siren, but the tee shot must carry the bunkers AND negitiate the fairway contours.  The closer you get to the green, the more hurly burly the surrounds.  Otherwise its 5-wood, wedge.  3 or 6...it depends on if you execute.  Risk - reward...much more interesting than 10 at Red Hawk which is prettier, but not as sexy form an architecture standpoint.

Matt_Ward

Re:The Best of Jim Engh
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2006, 11:29:55 AM »
Jay:

The exercise of selecting holes is not to simply cherry-pick one or two but to add AN ENTIRE layout of the best of Engh and make it into a par-72 course with the holes chosen from their precise location on those respective courses.

Jay -- you raise a good point on the overall merits of the par-3 17th at Pradera. On giving that some thoughts -- I would add that hole and drop the one I picked from Redlands Mesa.

I would like to switch the 1st hole selectee to a par-5 because Engh generally likes to start his courses, not all of them mind you, with a par-5.

As I indicated for me that would be either the 1st at Sanctuary or Fossil Trace. That would be my total # of par-5 holes to five, which is generally what one sees when playing an Engh layout.

However, once I add a fifth par-5 I'll need to include one additional par-3 and pull one of the existing par-4 holes that have already been chosen.

Among those par-4 holes are the following:

2nd Pradera
5th Pradera
6th Black Rock
8th Sanctuary
10th Red Hawk Ridge
11th Pradera
14th Redlands Mesa
15th Black Rock
16th Lakota Canyon Ranch

Gents: If there is a par-3 Engh hole that can substitute oneof the above mentioned par-4's I'd love to see it. Not all of the par-4 holes above is rock solid in my mind. I won't say which ones because it will take away from this exercise.

The updated overall listing ...

1st hole -- Snowmass Club (4) 460 yds
HM Sanctuary (5) 604 yds & Fossil Trace (5) 575 yds
2nd hole -- Pradera (4) 432 yds
3rd hole -- Hawktree (3) 164 yds
4th hole -- Lakota Canyon (5) 556 yds
5th hole -- Pradera (4) 356 yds
6th hole -- Black Rock (4) 428 yds
7th hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch (3) 223 yds
8th hole -- Sanctuary (4) 380 yds
HM Blackstone (4) 456 yds
9th hole -- Blackstone (5) 560 yds

10th hole -- Red Hawk Ridge (4) 440 yds
11th hole -- Pradera (4)  495 yds
12th hole -- Fossil Trace (5)  585 yds
13th hole -- Hawktree (3)  230 yds
14th hole -- Redlands Mesa (4) 390 yds
15th hole -- Black Rock (4)  457 yds
16th hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch (4)  416 yds
17th hole -- Pradera (3) 224 yds
HM - Lakota Canyon Ranch (3)  219 yds & Redlands Mesa
18th hole -- Pradera (5)  557 yds
HM - Lakota Canyon Ranch (5)  557 yds.

P.S. For those who have played Tullymore are there any par-3 holes which might be selected ?

Thanks ...

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