I played a Norman course for the first time today

[Brock Peyer]

I played The River Club in Suwanee, GA today in a charity tournament.  It was the first Norman course that I have played.  I wasn't sure what quite to expect, I know that Norman is not a favorite here, I knew that it would be in impeccable condition, it was.  I can't say that I have a complete GCA opinion on it considering that we played a Captain's choice but at first glance I loved it.  I think that the fairway bunkers frame the fairways really well and are strategically placed, they make you think and seemed to be placed at the right distances.  I really enjoyed the green complexes and it was in great condition.  I can't wait to get back.  I haven't played Sugarloaf but I do like it better visually.

Has anyone else played it more than once and not in a tournament?  What do you think?

[ed_getka]

Brock,
   I am curious why you expected it to be in impeccable condition because it is a Greg Norman course? I have only played one of his courses out here in California. Wente Vineyards and it had a few good holes but mostly it was a fairly unimaginative course that would appeal to a pro golfer who wants to score. That is just my opinion, as there are others here who feel Wente is a pretty good course. It is not a bad course by any means, but one I just don't find to be very interesting. The greens don't have much contour (there are exceptions), the short game shots are mostly straightforward. Between the water and vineyards, there are plenty of places to have your ball out of play. There is a 300 foot elevation gain up a Lombard St. type cartpath just in case you thought it might be walkable. In Greg's defense there were some pretty severe areas of the site to contend with.

[Brock Peyer]

Brock,
   I am curious why you expected it to be in impeccable condition because it is a Greg Norman course? I have only played one of his courses out here in California. Wente Vineyards and it had a few good holes but mostly it was a fairly unimaginative course that would appeal to a pro golfer who wants to score. That is just my opinion, as there are others here who feel Wente is a pretty good course. It is not a bad course by any means, but one I just don't find to be very interesting. The greens don't have much contour (there are exceptions), the short game shots are mostly straightforward. Between the water and vineyards, there are plenty of places to have your ball out of play. There is a 300 foot elevation gain up a Lombard St. type cartpath just in case you thought it might be walkable. In Greg's defense there were some pretty severe areas of the site to contend with.

Ed, sorry, I was slightly misstated in how I said that.  I knew it would be in great condition simply by the reputation that it has around here.  I live a few miles from it and know many people that have played it who have said that it was always in impeccable condition, but of course, that has really nothing to do with the designer.

[cary lichtenstein]

I have yet to play a Norman course that I would like to go back and play a 2nd time except Red Sky.

But hats off to Norman who has a huge golf course design business globally. Financially he does exceptionally well, maybe he should spread a few of those bucks around and hire some first class talent.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

I played The River Club in Suwanee, GA today in a charity tournament.  It was the first Norman course that I have played.  I wasn't sure what quite to expect, I know that Norman is not a favorite here, I knew that it would be in impeccable condition, it was.  I can't say that I have a complete GCA opinion on it considering that we played a Captain's choice but at first glance I loved it.  I think that the fairway bunkers frame the fairways really well and are strategically placed, they make you think and seemed to be placed at the right distances.  I really enjoyed the green complexes and it was in great condition.  I can't wait to get back.  I haven't played Sugarloaf but I do like it better visually.

Has anyone else played it more than once and not in a tournament?  What do you think?

Unfortunately for you Brock, you may have started off with one of the "Least-Norman" of Norman's courses.  As you may or may not know, what he did there in Savannah is basicly do a slight makeover on an existing course that someone else designed about 5 years ago (I cant remember but it might have been Bob Cupp).  Norman's group bought the entire development, and so he wanted to put his touches on the course itself, both the original and the new versions are good golf courses, and I do think Norman did improve the course, but what I meant by the Least-Norman was that the layout and routing were done by someone else.

I hope you do get to see Sugarloaf, or if you live in Savannah, Norman's Reserve at Litchfield in Myrtle Beach area is one of his best efforts that I have played.

[A.G._Crockett]

I played The River Club in Suwanee, GA today in a charity tournament.  It was the first Norman course that I have played.  I wasn't sure what quite to expect, I know that Norman is not a favorite here, I knew that it would be in impeccable condition, it was.  I can't say that I have a complete GCA opinion on it considering that we played a Captain's choice but at first glance I loved it.  I think that the fairway bunkers frame the fairways really well and are strategically placed, they make you think and seemed to be placed at the right distances.  I really enjoyed the green complexes and it was in great condition.  I can't wait to get back.  I haven't played Sugarloaf but I do like it better visually.

Has anyone else played it more than once and not in a tournament?  What do you think?

Unfortunately for you Brock, you may have started off with one of the "Least-Norman" of Norman's courses.  As you may or may not know, what he did there in Savannah is basicly do a slight makeover on an existing course that someone else designed about 5 years ago (I cant remember but it might have been Bob Cupp).  Norman's group bought the entire development, and so he wanted to put his touches on the course itself, both the original and the new versions are good golf courses, and I do think Norman did improve the course, but what I meant by the Least-Norman was that the layout and routing were done by someone else.

I hope you do get to see Sugarloaf, or if you live in Savannah, Norman's Reserve at Litchfield in Myrtle Beach area is one of his best efforts that I have played.

Turboe,
I think you're talking about the Norman redo of The Woodyard, a Bob Cupp course just outside Savannah.  Brock is talking about a course here in the metro Atlanta area.  

Unfortunately, I haven't seen either one, though I did play The Woodyard before it was plowed over.  I really liked it, and found it amazing that it was trashed after only 4 or 5 years, but Norman's name was needed to sell real estate, I think.

[Kyle Henderson]

Brock,
  I have only played one of his courses out here in California. Wente Vineyards and it had a few good holes but mostly it was a fairly unimaginative course that would appeal to a pro golfer who wants to score. That is just my opinion, as there are others here who feel Wente is a pretty good course. It is not a bad course by any means, but one I just don't find to be very interesting. The greens don't have much contour (there are exceptions), the short game shots are mostly straightforward. Between the water and vineyards, there are plenty of places to have your ball out of play. There is a 300 foot elevation gain up a Lombard St. type cartpath just in case you thought it might be walkable. In Greg's defense there were some pretty severe areas of the site to contend with.

Mr. Getka,
I actually think that many of the holes at Wente are very imaginative, especially:

#6: a short, uphill par 4 with right to left fairway and severe false front on a green sitting in a high saddle

#10: Short par 4, drivable but with with cliff looming on the right, bunkers, old oak tree and native grasses left, and some interesting green contours that favor short iron approaches from the extreme left and right sides of the fairway

#13 Downhill par four that doglegs around vineyards (ob, I personally don't think there are too many obs on the course, and pace of play always seems to be fast there due to the 12-minute tee time intervals) with a drop off to a dry creek gulch on the outside, several choices for flat landing areas in the fairway that are challenged in varying degrees by bunkers, and with the green perched on the side of the hill

I do think that the finishing 4 holes are a little bland, probably because they are on the flattest pieces of the property and Norman had used up his creative juices (is this where you question his imagination?) in dealing with the more extreme tographical challenges posed elsewhere.

Just my 22 cents...


Everyone,
Has anybody played Doonbeg? I've yet to hear much about that course (I'll check for threads...)