[Ryan Heiman]

I know there is not a lot of love for Wolf Creek  on this board, but for me, it was a real treat.  I can play alot of courses that look the same.  Some trees left side, some trees right side, grass in the middle.  Some water here and there.
But Wolf Creek is a cliff hanger and tons of fun for the average golfer.  Here are some pics that you can enjoy or hate.

[John Keenan]

Ryan

I played it a few years ago with a group of friends on a golf out to the Trifecta of golf  Las Vegas, Mesquite and St George. To a man we enjoyed it and had a great time at Wolf Creek. Not sure I would want it as my home course but as a once and a while visit lots of fun.

[Matt_Ward]

Ryan:

Great pictures -- I have always opined that Wolf Creek is the modern style quirk that people who have a good bit more than classic golf on the brain should try at least once.

The Mesquite layout is indeed a marvel even with the shortcomings of a few holes -- e.g., the uphill par-3 3rd, to mention the most glaring of holes.

Given all the fanfare that Shadow Creek and Cascata generate a day at Wolf Creek is certainly a fun day to be had by those who have a wider sense of the word "fun."

What did you think of the 2nd hole ? Did you venture to the very back tees to get the whole v-i-e-w ?

Thanks ...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

This is not a course I would like to play everyday. Once was enough for me. Our group had fun(myself included) and they will be returning but without me.

[Anthony Gray]

  From the website this course looks awesome. Why do people say they only would play it once? Is it worth the trip

  Anthony

[Andy Troeger]

Anthony,
Wolf Creek is a course that really polarizes people. There are many threads in the archives with more detail than this one if you're inclined to do more searching.

Whether or not you like it might depend a lot on what you are looking for?

Resistance to scoring? Yes
Aesthetics? Yes
Conditioning? A little overly lush, but generally Yes
Memorability? Duh!

Playability? I've seen worse, but you'll lose some golf balls out here most likely. The slope is very high, but I thought the playing corridors had reasonable width.
Walk in the park? Nope
Ambience? Not really to me.

Its the most unique golf course I've ever seen. I wouldn't want it as a home course, but I'd definitely go back. For anyone on this board that tries to get around to a lot of places, this is one that I think you should see at least once hopefully with an open mind. Some may hate it, but I think its worth the experience.

[Jeff Zeagler]

I've played Wolf Creek six times and have always enjoyed it immensely.  Yes, there are a few tricked up holes on the course and several of the greens are borderline unfair but it is a totally unique experience.  On our last trip, we had everything from scratch players to 20+ hcps and everyone had a blast.  Due to the large number of forced carries, we allowed the high handicappers to drop at the beginning of the fairway if they didn't make it on their first shot.  This kept the pace of play up and took a lot of the pressure off those guys.  There are a couple of small casinos in Mesquite but otherwise, there really is not a lot to do other than golf.  That being said, I would certainly recommend it to others for a golf trip.

[Anthony Gray]

  Andy and Jeff,

  Thank you for your comments. Now that my daughter is older it is time to get back to my must play list and I have had Wolf Creek high on my list. A member at my club is a native american and plays it every year during a conference and loves it. But on this site I have not seen favorable comments.

  Anthony

[Eric Smith]

  Andy and Jeff,

  Thank you for your comments. Now that my daughter is older it is time to get back to my must play list and I have had Wolf Creek high on my list. A member at my club is a native american and plays it every year during a conference and loves it. But on this site I have not seen favorable comments.

  Anthony

"There are more important things than grades. Winning the caddy tournament, for instance.."

[George Pazin]

...But on this site I have not seen favorable comments.

You must not read any of Matt's comments...

This course is the very definition of polarizing. It tends to elicit one of three responses:

1) Loved it.

2) Hated it.

3) Was worth seeing once but won't be going back.

There is a gigantic amount, both positive and negative, about WC posted on this board, just look around a little.

[Matt_Ward]

Anthony:

Let me explain it this way about Wolf Creek ...

If you are one of those "CLASSIC" school of architecture types -- the ones who think golf must be in a certain prescribed manner then you should AVOID Wolf Creek at all costs.

Wolf Creek is akin to Thai food -- many people don't want more than a steak and potato meal. Wolf Creek is the movie version of an Indiana Jones adventure. If your golf tastes are equivalent to cinema tastes of a classic sort -- you'll need to stay with the Citizen Kane type movie/course.

Wolf Creek features an array of exciting opportunities for players to take risks throughout the round. I would dare say that for many people they should eschew the scorecard and play the course as a match play test.

For all the hype and talk that Shadow Creek gets -- Wolf Creek is beyond that considerably. Credit architect Dennis Rider for taking a site that looks like the surface of Mars and then designing holes that actually fit quite comfortably within such confines.

Those who are enamored with parksland golf -- heed my warning -- stay away from Wolf Creek.

What's so amusing is that the same people who gush on and on and on about quirky golf in Ireland -- see the Klondyke and Dell holes at Lahinch as two clear examples, are quick to throw Wolf Creek "under the bus" as being a big waste of time. No doubt there are some edgy holes there -- the uphill par-3 3rd is a good example. But there are also some really exciting holes the cape-like 2nd provides mega thrills with the shotmaking options and the views from the champ tees is mesmermizing.

Like I said Indiana Jones movies don't win Oscars -- but they do get people do stay in their seats for the next exciting turn of the events. Wolf Creek does that and more -- for those who prefer sedate predictable classical oriented golf the best thing to do is stay away. You won't be missed.

[George Pazin]

Anyone who had 17 minutes or less in the Time Until Matt Introduces The Thai Food Analogy is a winner. Send me a message to claim your prize(s).

 

[Jason Topp]

Here is the first thread I was involved with on Wolf Creek.  Both sides give pretty good accounts of their positions.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,19869.0.html

[Matt_Ward]

George:

The crate you get from me will be your preferred pedestrian mix of steaks, potato -- you know the drill.

Speaking of repetitive whines -- can't wait to start the clock on the Pazin "how unfair" Wolf Creek is and how the cart rides ruined his day. Yada, yada, yada. Poor George.

For those yearning for that response -- take your stopwatch out because George will oblige. Only issue is that George will type it faster than the guy from Jamaica who won the 100-meter in world record time.

Guys:

Keep this in mind there is a double-standard for quirk on GCA. If it's tied to Ireland or Scotland you can have holes with walls next to them -- or holes with castles on top of greens and holes that end abruptly with huge faces of sand, hill and the like -- and guess what -- you'll get people gushing about how great it is. Do something of a similar sort here in the States and these same "hold your nose" types will castigate Wolf Creek as goofy golf.

By the way -- I freely admit that not all 18 holes at Wolf Creek fall outside criticism -- but there are more than few holes there that provide a thrill sensation that very few courses ever come remotely close in generating.

 

[George Pazin]

George:

The crate you get from me will be your preferred pedestrian mix of steaks, potato -- you know the drill.

Speaking of repetitive whines -- can't wait to start the clock on the Pazin "how unfair" Wolf Creek is and how the cart rides ruined his day. Yada, yada, yada. Poor George.

For those yearning for that response -- take your stopwatch out because George will oblige. Only issue is that George will type it faster than the guy from Jamaica who won the 100-meter in world record time.

Guys:

Keep this in mind there is a double-standard for quirk on GCA. If it's tied to Ireland or Scotland you can have holes with walls next to them -- or holes with castles on top of greens and holes that end abruptly with huge faces of sand, hill and the like -- and guess what -- you'll get people gushing about how great it is. Do something of a similar sort here in the States and these same "hold your nose" types will castigate Wolf Creek as goofy golf.

By the way -- I freely admit that not all 18 holes at Wolf Creek fall outside criticism -- but there are more than few holes there that provide a thrill sensation that very few courses ever come remotely close in generating.

 

 

 

[Pete_Pittock]

I'll chime in in a couple of weeks. After the KP I am heading to Vegas, Wolffe Creek and Sand Hollow on the way to the four corners area.

[Rob Rigg]

Ryan - Thanks for sharing the pics.

[George Pazin]

Ryan, I apologize for diverting the thread with my ongoing battle with Matt. What specifically did you like about the course? Which holes?

Pete, I look forward to your report.

[Matt_Ward]

Rob:

I love your b-r-o-a-d brush filled with cliches about Wolf Creek.

You just might NOT get it -- but the course was built and is located in a harsh setting. Credit Dennis Rider with being able to create holes that can be played -- provided the players actually hit golf shot -- instead of the predictable whine / bark / moan about how unfair the course is.

You have people who gush about quirk in Scotland and it's no less "goofy" than what you claim you find at Wolf Creek. Slap a NV address on the place and you have people thinking how could anything associated with Nevada or heave help us near Vegas be worth a play.

If you have particular specifics about any hole I'd be happy to read your thoughts -- I never said WC was a perfect course. There are few, if any, of such layouts in the world.

But the course does provide a heavy dosage of fun and if people execute wisely will pay off huge dividends. As I mentioned previously, the 18th is the only real downer of a hole -- I was hoping for a good bit more -- the formulaic waterfall to the left of the green complex is a good point for any anti-WC to point out.

Ryan:

Thanks for posting the pics. Like George -- I'd appreciate hearing your take on the best / worst holes from your perspective. It's possible -- although highly unlikely -- that George may learn something about the course!

[Michael Dugger]

Jeebus, Ward, yer crackin' on someone about cliches?  Are analogies and cliches significantly different? 

And you keep harping on how "Dennis Rider should be credited for being able to create hole that can be played"

If I recall correctly, Dennis Rider use to run on the property, and thought it was a great place for a golf course.

To me, there is a big difference between "choosing" property and "making something playable" on it.


 

[Niall C]

I'm not sure whether I qualify as a tradionalist although I do play more old style courses than modern. However to my eye, and judging by the pics as I've never played Wolf Creek, i don't see anything aesthetically that offends me. It reminds me of some of the courses on the Costa Del Sol in Spain which are laid out on difficult hilly terrain which occasionally throws up 90 degree dog-legs with a 5 iron of the tee and a 3 wood approach. If they have managed to avoid those kind of holes at Wolf Creek then good on them.

BTW - is it just me that thinks its best to avoid any course on the Costa del Sol which Seve has put his name to, all for the very reason mentioned above ?

Niall

[Matt_Ward]

Michael:

Is it too much to ask that people who trash WC provide specifics on the shots / holes they find questionable ?

I'm more than happy to see the specifics -- instead of the E-Z throw under the bus contempt.

Michael, I've played the course a bunch of times -- with a range of people who don't have the "nose up in the air" in regards to what they see as being great golf. I said this plenty of times -- in the event you missed it -- some people only view "classic design" as the one true path to course greatness. I don't. Guess what -- others feel like I do -- they've posted as much -- you can see that with what Ryan mentioned.

I freely admit that "classic school types" need to avoid WC. I've used the Thai food connection plenty of times to illustrate the nature of WC -- plenty of people can't stand Thai food too. But, I'd like to see a bit more on the thoughtful narrative side of specific holes / shots that people feel are not playable or goofy.

Once that happens a real dialogue can ensure.

Niall:

FYI, there are no 5-iron off the tee and 3-wood approach holes at WC.

 

[George Pazin]

Michael, I've played the course a bunch of times -- with a range of people who don't have the "nose up in the air" in regards to what they see as being great golf. I said this plenty of times -- in the event you missed it -- some people only view "classic design" as the one true path to course greatness. I don't. Guess what -- others feel like I do -- they've posted as much -- you can see that with what Ryan mentioned.

I freely admit that "classic school types" need to avoid WC. I've used the Thai food connection plenty of times to illustrate the nature of WC -- plenty of people can't stand Thai food too. But, I'd like to see a bit more on the thoughtful narrative side of specific holes / shots that people feel are not playable or goofy.

I love how anyone who disagrees with you on what constitutes good golf automatically is labeled as a "classic school type" with his "nose up in the air". How wonderfully open minded of you, Matt; it harkens back to your "How Open Is Your Mind" thread, where apparently the definition of open minded is simply agreeing with you.

Niall -

I would encourage you to read the thread in Jason Topp's link. Contrary to what Matt says, there is a tremendous amount of in-depth discussion of the course. If it's not in Jason's thread, let me know and I'll try to dig up some earlier threads.

[Matt_Ward]

George:

C'mon -- let's get serious -- shall we !

I never said disagreement won't happen on WC. I even said -- several times over and over and over -- that those who are enamored with classic school design will likely not enjoy WC and should avoid it at all costs. You also have the types who dump on the place because of the mandatory cart usage -- again -- that's fine -- but the cart situation is generally something that classic design types like to avoid because of the affinity for walking.

I also asked those who trash the place to provide real specifics. Is that too much to ask for?

I never said WC is everyone's cup of tea George. Try to keep that in mind before you lob another verbal grenade my way. My mind is open to different courses and my listing contains a wider variety than many here on GCA. I don't doubt that WC is not a favorite for many but the usual general throw under-the-bus comments are predictably short on specifics. Let me see some details on shots / holes and a real discussion can ensue. I've said WC has weaknesses -- but it has plenty of strengths.

[George Pazin]

Matt, do you even read what you post? You derisively dismiss those who disagree with you on the merits of the course - and then accuse me of throwing verbal grenades when I call you on it.

Maybe you should go reread the old threads - there was much discussion about ALL aspects of WC. I pointed out more than a few things I liked about the course, but that doesn't mean I liked it overall. If that somehow equates to me "having my nose in the air" and only liking "meat and potatoes" - well, you're free to believe whatever you like, but that doesn't make it true.

Perhaps another play would change my mind, but we will never know the answer to that one, because I will never go back again, at least not willingly. Not because I don't have an open mind, but merely because I have limited resources and there are MANY MANY MANY courses I would like to see for the first time before I spend time and money on a replay of a course I found questionable the first time.

Ryan, I'm still hoping you share some thoughts - I promise I don't bite, at least no one besides Matt.

 

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