[Tom_Doak]

I don't think that the 14th at SFGC needs any more bunkers, just because a lot of people can get past the bunkers on the right which currently exist.  It's still a tough angle to the hole from over there.  Moreover, when working with a great course which is one of its architects' recognized best works, I give the benefit of the doubt quite strongly to the original designer.

At the end of the day, it is always just a matter of opinion what is better.  Some here have implied that it's ego on my part for wanting to see my own best work preserved, but I see just the opposite.  Don't any of you recognize the ego on the part of everyone else for wanting to make a change to a great course and somehow "prove" they are smarter than the old dead guy?  Even when you can't prove anything because it's just a matter of opinion?

I would rather invest any ego I have in my own works, than employ it to sabotage the works of others.

[TEPaul]

"Tom, I believe that you have nit the proverbial nail on the head, whether it's Zippy the Pinhead or otherwise."

Shiv, you legal-eagle wordsmith---how does one nit the proverbial nail? I can't imagine but it must be pretty cool and a very neat trick. My first thought, however, is only "OUCH" particularly if you nit the nail with a prefix of K which you may've neglected to include.

[TEPaul]

Shivas:

Excellent post---really fine, very thoughtful. Let me think about it before responding in detail.

The American culture or ethos does have it's drawbacks, for sure, but it also has its assets which in many ways are unique to the world and its entire history, or was. We used to be the world's "can do" people or culture, despite some turblence cast off from our dynamo but it seems like some have learned out to compete with us that way, or maybe out-compete may be a better term.  

I don't know all that much about them but those that do all say the Chinese maybe approaching another dimension in that way, and that they'll be no stopping them now.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

"Trouble is, if you do a restoration, you have to choose a date and go with it. In the case of NGLA, Karl told me he chose 1930."

Gib:

Who says so?

What's wrong with doing a comprehensive design evolution report of the golf course and then with an architect deciding through a master plan what works best for the golf course?

Do you really think that if somethng from 1930 on some hole works well and it can be determined that something on another hole didn't work well it should be restored too?

That makes no sense to me and I don't see why it would to an architect either.

The reason I agree with Gib on this is for the following.

Selecting a "restore to date" eliminates current and future green committees from "improving" the golf course.

That is how 90 % of the disfigurations started in the first place.
Green Chairman, Committees and Boards, in whimsical fashion decided to "improve" the golf course.

By selecting a "restore to date" you eliminate that urge, which is constant at clubs.

The value of a "restore to date" is that it preserves and protects the architecture from disfiguration.

And, when you look at all of the golf courses that have been altered over the years, you have to ask yourself, how many were dramatically improved, versus how many were disfigured ?

It's my view that I'd rather preserve and protect and retain the architecture at a "restore to date", rather than let green committees have a free hand.

It's by far, the lesser of two evils.[/color]

P.S.

I think one of the things that conflicts you is GMGC.

You have to think beyond your own club's experience and view the process in a global sense, and not from a perspective confined to one club where Ross and Maxwell left their marks.

Oak Hill, GCGC, Oakland Hills and many others have been altered, and many would question the current day results.

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

I can't really believe how misguided you are.

"Restoring to a date" doesn't prevent future disfiguring of any golf course, master plans do, whether that master plan is restoring everything to a particular date or the golf courses and it's holes to the best it can be from before pre-project.

The only real reason you don't like anything other than restoring to a date has to be because you don't like and don't trust anyone else's opinion but your own.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of golf clubs don't function t well with a lot of attitudes like that.

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