[Jason Topp]

I played Giant's Ridge Quarry and Northland Country Club this Saturday.  I really enjoy both courses and this visit was once again a pleasure.  Because many here have played them, I thought I would share a few observations:

Quarry:

1.  Probably due to wet ground, cool weather and a late night before, our tee shots were travelling around 30 yards shorter than on other visits.  Nonetheless, the course was very playable and scores were not much different than in other rounds (lower for me).  To me, this is indicative of a good design in the modern era, in that a course should ideally provide an enjoyable and challenging test to players with wide differences in driving distances.  Any time someone argues that others did not like the course because they are playing the wrong tees, I think of how enjoyable matches can be at my club against older good players that hit it 20 yards shorter than me, but still normally beat me.

2.  In the past, I have experienced slow rounds at the Quarry.  Not this time.  We played in 4 hours despite teeing off at 9:00 with 2 hours of tee times ahead of us.  The rangers really did a teriffic job and could tell us the pace of the slowest group on the course to the minute.  It really looks like they have done a teriffic job and other courses should find out how they have approached the issue.

3.  I have heard others criticize the 18th hole.  I do not understand that criticism.  I think the tee shot presents a wide array of options between an agressive line leaving a 150 yard approach from a better angle to a 230 yard approach from a conservative tee shot.  The green is wonderfully contoured so that the best way to get to a back right pin position (near the cliff) is to run it up the left side of the green to get back there.  I suggest people look at the green when paying the green fee to figure out how they will attack it at the end of the round.

4.  I think the short par four that Ron Whitten raved about (#5) would be an even better hole if the fairway up to the green were widened to about 15-20 yards to make going for the green more tempting.  I've never been tempted to try even though I usually go for everything just because it is more fun.

5.  Despite the wetness of the fairways, the greens were very firm, with ballmarks a rarity.  A real pleasure to play.

Northland Country Club

An enjoyable test in a beautiful setting.  The course conditioning was a bit rough as it usually is.  I do not think it detracts from the quality of the experience one bit other than some very soft greens.

I've heard people say that most remnants of Donald Ross have been stamped out of the course.  I wonder what has been stamped out?  It certainly is an enjoyable course built on very steep terrain.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jason,

Second things first. Craig Schriener did a "restoration" of Northland a few years back.  Before that, Cornish did some additons, which I think have survived.  Having interviewed for the job as well when designing the Quarry, I hate to criticise, as per ASGCA regulations, but I know one prominent Ross expert who often posts here, but shall remain nameless, question the look of some of the bunkers, etc.  But, I don't think they touched the greens, just the bunkers and some fw work, so Ross survives.

As to the Quarry, they have had other complaints about overwatering.  It may be worse since they had freeze and turf loss from last winter, and may be trying to interseed to regenerate the turf loss in the fairways.

I know what you are saying on the fifth, but I like the low profile green and the semi blind feature. At that length, many would say your change would make the hole too easy.

FYI, the green was originally planned to to atop the shelf that now sits left of the green, with a second fairway up where the wildflowers are.  It turned out that that was an old test excavation area for more sand deposits, but it was in reality Peat that was piled up.  The soils weren't stable and we moved the hole down the hill.  I also fell in the peat up to my shoulders on one of my site walks.  I was alone and couldn't get out, so I feared I would spend the night there with the wolves!

Good to hear a report, and I will ask them how they sped up play.

[Jason Topp]

Jeff - thanks for the information.  I'm certainly glad the wolves did not get you.

I will need to take a look at the 5th to see where the originally proposed greensite was.  

We played it with the pin front right which is definitely an interesting spot, even if one cannot go for the green. (1) Layup at the pin, leaving a blind uphill lob wedge, (2) lay back to the left with a visible shot from 100 yards or so, or (3) hit it to the base of the hill to the left giving green to work with.  I tried option 3, but executed option 1.  I made 4 and had low score on the hole by 2, despite everyone hitting a tee shot in play.

Incidentally, the group I played with had played the Wilderness the day before and never came to a conclusion as to which course they liked better.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jason,

If you wanted option 3, but got option 1, I think local rule says go back and have a do over.....

It should be fairly evident where the fw and green would have been, and it would have been quite near the cart path from 11 to 12.  I also tried to convince them, that in that location, the routing should have gone from 5 to what is now 12, and then 11 to what is now 6, without returning nines.  You know the result of that.

At one time, I pushed hard for 18 to be a par 3, basically replicating the second shot from the tee.  Again, you know the result!  I can understand why your friends might not like it.  You really have to bust a shot to get over the bunker and shorten the approach and if you can't make it, you are at a severe disadvantage.  Its a good example of why carry bunkers have fallen out of favor!

And even I have a few qualms about my last minute addition of the short bunker in the middle of the fw that catches medicore shots.  Maybe it helps golfers by making them lay up if they are in it.  And, like you, I never aim anywhere less than 20 yards left of the green and roll the ball down the hill to almost any pin.

I was going to ask if you got up to Fortune Bay.  The Wilderness has traditionally been more firm and fast.  If you can beleive it, play corridors are even wider than the Quarry, with several double fw.  My sense is that popular opinion is about split, with average golfers liking the Wilderness for its big number forgiveness (I think it can nip away at your score in less offensive ways) and natural vs. Quarry setting.  Those who like the Quarry like the difficulty and unique look.

[Jason Topp]

Jeff -

I did not get up to the Wilderness this time, but did get there last year.  I played with a friend from Holland who had played golf once in his life, so we played from forward tees and had a really nice time.  I definitely want to get back there sometime and play it from further back.

[Jason McNamara]

Has anyone ever made it over to Superior National?  Do I understand correctly it's perched on cliffs above the lake?

Jason Mc.

[Rick Shefchik]

Jason M. --

I played Superior National ten years ago and was in no rush to go back. I've heard they've softened the course a bit since then, and I'll try it again if it fits into my schedule, but given the severity of the property, I'm not sure how good the course could ever be.

Regarding Northland/Ross: I agree that the new bunkers are not very Ross-like. I won't go so far as to say the bunkers now remind me of Rulewich's work at Yale, but there's not a lot of character to the fairway bunkers that were added.

That said, they left a number of the greenside bunkers substantially intact (#2, #6, #7, #9, #10, #11, #15, #17) and these, combined with the fantastic sloping greens, are the true soul of the course. It is not true that there's no Ross left at Northland; the greens (except for #13) are almost exactly the same as they were in 1960.

Northland's conditioning can be terrific, but Duluth can be a rough place to grow anything if the weather doesn't cooperate. They had a brutal May this year, followed by a very hot summer -- not ideal for the golf course. But as Jason Topp said, Northland's a treat any time.

[Jason Topp]

I would echo Rick's impression of Superior National.  Beautiful spot, mediocre course.  Play if you are in the area anyway but otherwise - Northland, Giant's Ridge and the Wilderness should be your destination in that area of the world.

[Jason McNamara]

I would echo Rick's impression of Superior National.  Beautiful spot, mediocre course.  Play if you are in the area anyway but otherwise - Northland, Giant's Ridge and the Wilderness should be your destination in that area of the world.

"In the area anyway" is kind of a stretch, given SN's location.  

In any event, thanks to you and Rick for the scoop.

Jason

[cary lichtenstein]

Jeff:

Finish the peat story, how long were you stuck, up to your waist, neck, etc, how did you get out

Cary

[Jeff_Brauer]

Cary,

There was a tree knocked down by wind, and as I was stepping over the trunk, I fell in the hole left by the root ball when it uprooted. I dropped straight down vertically, and my arms caught on the soil rim and some tree limbs.

After many minutes of being somewhat dazed, I tried to get out by pulling with my arms, but there was nothing stable and I was unsucessful.  After hearing, but not seeing an animal (it may have been a deer, timberwolf, bear or moose, based on other sightings there) moving in the nearby woods, I got a little more motivated.  I eventually kicked enough peat and small branches under my legs and grabbed part of the larger tree to get out.  

I recall going out there right after lunch, and getting back to the hotel about when it was dusk, so I was probably stuck an hour or two, with the rest of the time spent finding my way back out of the woods.  Our topo didn't show that trench or the wild topo that ended up being the 13th hole. Usually, I am pretty good at reading those maps, but I kept thinking the road would be over the next ridge just to find another ridge of mine spoils that didn't show on the topo.

I am sure it will be the basis of a new reality show: "LOST - walking virgin golf course sites edition."

[Tommy Williamsen]

Jason, I was in MN for my son's wedding and had a chance to slip up north for a few days.  I played Northland, The Quarry and the Legend.  Given the very hilly and sloping land I thought the routing at Northland to be genius. I walked the course and my quads were burning at the end.  I loved the greens complexes and found them fair.  But if you fail to get the ball in a good position three putts would not be rare.  I thought the conditioning was good.  The greens were excellent and the turf in the fairways was plentiful albeit a little wet.  My only thought was that the bunkers were too shallow and their shape to round and boring for Ross.  It was pretty easy to see that they had been tampered with.

I loved the Quarry.  It was fair with plenty of room off the tee and the greens large but severe.  It could have been the day but I had a most difficult time on the greens.  I three putted 6 times.  Between the undulations and speed I was buffalowed.  I would like to give it a second try.  As for 18 I thought it was a good hole.  It gave an option to cut the corner and the greensite was interesting and less severe than the others.  The veiw of the lake and the shot values made for an excellnt ending.

Jeff, glad you escaped the peat.  Sounds a lot like the story of Weiskopf at Loch Lomond.  I didn't relize that golf architects had such a dangerous job!  

[Ryan Heiman]

In the spring I played the quarry and the legend and loved them both.  But both groups I was paired up with at the courses thought that the wilderness was even better.  I haven't been able to make it back up there again, but I hope to soon.  

What makes people say the Wilderness is better?  Is it just easier or is it more scenic or just simply better.  I thought the quarry was simply outstanding.

[Jason Topp]

What makes people say the Wilderness is better?  Is it just easier or is it more scenic or just simply better.  I thought the quarry was simply outstanding.

Ryan - I only played it once and from a forward tee with a guy playing the second round of his life, so my focus was more on keeping play moving than the course.  With that caveat, the Wilderness has very interesting greens as well as wide fairways often split by rock outcroppings.  I definitely want to get back there to know the course better.

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