[Jeff_Brauer]

From all the Medinah threads, it occurs to me that I have seen it drop in the national rankings from a perennial top 10 in the 1960's when I started golfing to the middle/bottom of the top 100 now.  Seemingly, it has dropped a bit after each tournament it has held.

That raises the interesting question of how would other highly ranked courses fare in the rankings if a tournament were held there semi regularly?

For example, Pine Valley could similarly be proportionally more punishing for average than good players, but may not be a test for pros at its length, and if it had soft greens from rains just before the tournaments.

Of course, Augusta and Pebble get regular doses of the Tour. CP dropped out about the same time the ProV came into existence. I don't recall what scores were the last few years before the ATT/Crosby moved, but it can't be that hard for pros, can it?  (At least I know several who don't care for it, calling it too easy)

How would the rankings change if more top courses got exposed as Medinah has been exposed?

[Mike_Cirba]

Jeff,

That's a really good question but I think the truth is almost the opposite of what you suggest.

There was a time when most of the ratings seemed to be driven to a large extent by the fact that a course hosted top tournaments, or other pro events, and courses like Medinah got a bounce from that cache.

I think ratings have gotten much more sophisticated in the past 20 years, with more of a focus (at least in Golfweek and Golf Magazine) seemingly on what courses are best for EVERY level of player.  

I think most raters know that if Cypress Point or Pine Valley hosted a major medal tournament the overall scores would likely be pretty low.  But, I think that most raters feel that the enjoyment those courses provide to the other 99.999901% of golfer overrides those seeming deficiencies.

Put another way, if Medinah was still as enjoyable to the largest percentage of golfers, as say...NGLA, Fishers, Sand Hills, etc., and got toasted against par in a major, I don't think you'd see it's standing diminished in the least...not in the rankings, nor anywhere else.

Witness, exhibit A, The Old Course.  

I rest my case.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

It is true that the GD rankings moved from difficulty to quality over the years, and that might affect the rankings of a Firestone, Butler, and a few other tour venues.

I have to believe there are some well known courses out there that live on reputation alone that would be exposed as just another of the bunch if people really knew about them. I probably shouldn't have named any from the top 10, which are pretty firm by consensus.  And, Tiger did demolish Pebble and that just raised its GD profile from 2 to 1 from the exposure.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

It is true that the GD rankings moved from difficulty to quality over the years, and that might affect the rankings of a Firestone, Butler, and a few other tour venues.

I have to believe there are some well known courses out there that live on reputation alone that would be exposed as just another of the bunch if people really knew about them. I probably shouldn't have named any from the top 10, which are pretty firm by consensus.  And, Tiger did demolish Pebble and that just raised its GD profile from 2 to 1 from the exposure.

Jeff,

That's likely somewhat true.   I think we're probably thinking about many of the same courses, and they tend to be situated between 15 and 50 on most lists.  

However, I think what differentiates some of those courses from Medinah is that although quite a number of them play pretty one-dimensionally, especially with major tournament setup, virtually all seem to have more interesting green contours than Medinah.

Would you agree?
 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I still think many here are making those kind of judgements without haveing played any of the courses in question.  Since I haven't played any of Medinahs new greens, but only seen them outside the ropes, and don't recall accurately those other top 64 courses I have played, I won't venture a guess without looking at the list and jogging my memory.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jeff,

Fair enough.   I would agree with your basic premise that there are other Top 100 courses on all lists that hang onto their rating largely through reputation that may or may not be an accurate assessment of their greatness today.  

I won't name any here, either.  

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