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Jim Johnson

Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« on: August 18, 2006, 12:14:52 AM »
I had the opportunity to visit the site of the new "Sagebrush" course at Quilchena in beautiful British Columbia, last Thursday. GCAtlas's own Jeff Mingay, working with Rod Whitman and Canadian tour pro Richard Zokol, had invited me to drop by if I was in "the neighbourhood", and I couldn't resist when I was in Penticton last week on vacation, about a 2-hour drive away.

I'll enclose some photos [I apologize for the size, but hey, big pictures convey the big scale they're working with], with a brief description of what I can remember from our 2-hour visit with Jeff...

When we arrived, Jeff was working on the 7th fairway. We drove around the property with Jeff pointing out the various 6-foot tall stakes scattered throughout the area to denote the tee, landing zone, and green sites. One of the biggest issues was in dealing with the extreme property, and in getting up towards the higher elevation, it was decided to route the first hole upwards. The view below is from the greensite of the first hole, with the tees down below near the "hump" in a line between the SUV and the marker in the foreground. The landing zone is the white stake to the left of center of photo. BTW...the power line will be removed and relocated.



Once we had driven up to the site of the first green, we got out and walked along the second fairway [below], the highest elevation of the front nine, toward Nicola Lake.



The landing zone on #2 [below] is located in a "saddle" overlooking the lake, with a natural greensite further toward the lake. It wasn't difficult to understand that this hole would have stood out in the original routing plans as one that was just waiting to be built.



Further along in the routing, we stood on the site of the 5th hole's teeboxes [below], staring toward the lake, at what I believe will be a shortish par-4. For history buffs, the trail below is the original stagecoach line that ran through the area in the 1800's.



One of the holes which stood out in my mind was the par-3 sixth [below], approximately 260 yards from the tips, but as Jeff pointed out, downwind, downhill, and at high elevation. The greensite will be to the left of the bush in the center of the photo.



Number 7 was the hole they were working on when we arrived.
Dick Zokol and Jeff pose politely [below] in front of the work on the 7th fairway.



Dick [below] is looking toward the greensite of #7, which is massive, and may turn into a huge green.



Number 10 is a par-3 [below], which Jeff said was Rod's fav. Located on the edge of the property of the back nine, it currently features a prominent dead snag which will be cut down.



The next hole, a long par-4 [below], may stretch to 500 yards. It will feature a long downslope which may result in 400 yard drives, and then uphill to an elevated green. The greensite is located at the white marker over the cone-shaped tree in the center of the photo. This hole seemed to be Jeff's fav.



#12 is a short par-3 up high above the 11th green, with 13 a "drivable" par-4 of some 300 yards coming back down.

Jeff mentioned that the 16th hole would drop down some 200 or 250 feet. When I questioned him on that, I realized shortly afterwards when we drove back towards the proposed clubhouse site that he indeed was correct, having looked up toward the tee site from the "road".

#18 is a hole of some 430 yards, with the fairway below the clubhouse location, all with the view of Nicola Lake in the background.

We had the pleasure of meeting Richard Zokol shortly before we left. Dick, if you're "lurking" out there, it was great to meet you. Good luck with your project, and I hope that everything turns out the way you want it to. Dick mentioned some ideas of his, one of which is the possibility of building a "Himalayas" type of putting green for the members. He stated that he could easily imagine some members wandering out at 2 in the morning to have another go at it.

He also said that a practice area will be built down toward the other end of the front nine, a short 3-minute cart ride from the clubhouse, one which would simulate a "fairway" and not a "range".

Overall, the scale of the place is massive. Jeff said that to stick a skinny fairway on it would look totally out of place. Fairways will, in general, be wide. Not only for scale, but also to accommodate the wind, which I was told is constant in the afternoon, along the lake.

I hope that these photos add to the enjoyment of the place as shared by Andrew's earlier photos of the course. I will attempt to post a few more pics in the coming days.

Thanks Jeff, for taking time out for the visit. I'll keep in touch.

JJ

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2006, 01:16:31 AM »
Thanks for posting the pictures.  What a beautiful property that is, I can't wait to see the finished product.  The long par 4 11th hole really sounds interesting.  While long drives (potentially 400 yards as you say) are possible, playing the second shot to an uphill green off a likely downhill slope is always a challenging shot.  

What is the soil composition of the land, is it primarily sand and rock?  Is the club planning to be of the private destination type?

Jimmy Muratt

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2006, 01:22:23 AM »
I just found their website.  They have a fantastic hole-by-hole tour with diagrammed photos of the raw land showing tees, lines to the landing area, and greens.

http://www.sagebrushgolf.com/links.shtml

Click on each individual hole to see the photos.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 01:22:58 AM by Jimmy Muratt »

Tom_Doak

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2006, 04:22:20 AM »
Those are some big elevation changes.  Is the course intended to be walkable?  

Mike_Cirba

Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2006, 08:44:41 AM »
That site looks very similar in many respects to Sutton Bay.

It will be very interesting to see how it's routed on what looks to be a large elevation change, as TD noted.

Thanks for sharing J, and good fortune to Jeff and company.


John Foley

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2006, 08:49:08 AM »
Thanks for the pics & the web site looks awesome.

Jeff two quick questions:

 - Do you plan on keeping the cabin on the short par 4?? That would be really cool.

 - Why would you cut down the "dead sng" from the pic? It looks like it addds some great character.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 08:49:50 AM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

James Edwards

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2006, 09:07:14 AM »
JJ,

Thanks for sharing - and also, lots of respect for getting out there to walk the course with the architects/designers and professionals.

An impressive site / stage for a golf course - its just a pity that the routing does not get closer to the waters edge - but hey, you cant have everything  :)

 - a particularly impressive 2nd hole!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 09:07:24 AM by James Edwards »
@EDI__ADI

Mike Nuzzo

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2006, 10:00:43 AM »
I'd say put the long par 3 into the wind....

Thanks JJ for the pics.
Did you hit any balls?

Good work Jeff M.

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2006, 10:10:38 AM »
Those are some big elevation changes.  Is the course intended to be walkable?  

Tom: From my conversations with Rod and Dick on the subject, it probably won't be walkable. Simply too much elevation. Dick really wanted to use the site for a host of reasons, but it is a tough site for golf in some respects.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Jim Johnson

Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2006, 10:18:40 AM »
Mike,
Nope, didn't hit any balls, never considered taking my clubs there when we went.

James,
I wouldn't say that I "walked" the course. It's set on 311 acres, and from the looks of things, they're gonna use all of it. With the ups and downs, Jeff thought it best that we "drive" a lot of it with my SUV. Saved a lot of time too. We did get out and walk several holes tho. Being located high above the lake does afford incredible views too.

John,
Jeff told me that the "dead snag" has to come down for safety reasons, the inside of it is all rotted out, and will "come down" by itself someday.

Tom,
Jeff told me that it would be walkable for him. 'Course, I have a few more years on my bod than him. I love to walk a course, but I'm not honestly sure that I'd enjoy that there. The first hole is the stiffest walk. After that, on the front nine anyway, it could be possible I guess. Hopefully Jeff will chime in here one night when he gets off work.

Jimmy,
Let me tell you about their soil composition. It's DUSTY. Jeff, three carwashes later, I think I have most of the dust off my new baby. The inside, well, half a carton of ArmorAll Wipes later, it's looking a bit better. Needs a serious vacuum though. My second cousin who accompanied me noted the similarity of walking around on the moon, and took several photos of our footprints. My wife, who also accompanied me, noted that it was like walking around in black icing sugar, for 2 hours. I can't imagine working in that stuff for weeks/months at a time. Hats off to you guys Jeff.

JJ

Joe Hancock

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2006, 10:22:57 AM »
I'd say put the long par 3 into the wind....

How cliche......I don't know how to put that thingy over the "e"..... ;D

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2006, 05:01:55 PM »
Interesting thread, Jim  :)

Jimmy Murratt,
Thru the early stages of construction, we've been pleasantly surprised to find a lot of really decent topsoil throughout the property. And we've run into very little rock in the course of roughing in the first few greens sites, which included a few 3-4 ft. cuts.  

Sagebrush Golf & Sporting Club is intended to be a very exclusive private club.

Tom Doak,
The first time Zokol brought Whitman to the propety, he said: "That's the side of a mountain! You can't build a golf course there!" (Something like that, anyway.) Then he really nailed the routing (again). Only the first and ninth holes play dramatically uphill; like, say, the 8th at Augusta National, for example.

The more we walk (and tweak) the routing, the more walkable I think the course will be. Granted, your average 50-60 year old member isn't going to walk. But I could walk and play, I think.

John Foley,
That cabin's ready to fall down on its own. And so is the snag. Jim's right. The main reason the snag needs to be felled is for safety reasons. Plus, it's kinda in the way of the golf.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 05:03:07 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
jeffmingay.com

Dan Herrmann

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2006, 05:56:39 PM »
It's off topic, but I remember following Zokol at the Canadian Open back in '79 or '80-ish at Glenn Abbey.  What made him stand out to me was the way he zoned out to a Walkman between shots.

So - exactly what was he listening to?   :)

Wayne_Kozun

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2006, 06:01:02 PM »
So - exactly what was he listening to?   :)
Since Dick is a good Canadian it was probably Rush, Neil Young and Leonard Cohen.

ed_getka

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2006, 06:48:32 PM »
JJohnson,
   Thanks for the post. I always find these threads very interesting and you provided a lot of great info.
   Good luck to Jeff, Rod, and Richard on this project.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Sean McCue

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2006, 08:20:43 PM »
JJ,

With all of the information you presented about Sagebrush you failed to mention the very important involvement of Armen Suny to this project.  Armen brings over thirty years of agronomic expertise to this project, his involvement will ensure that sound construction and alternative agronomic practices are utilized.  He is doing this by spending significant amounts of time on site as well as specifying soil amendments and proper grass types for this arid climate.  With all of these highly qualified individuals working together on Sagebrush it would be hard to imagine nothing but great success on this project.

Sean
Be sure to visit my blog at www.cccpgcm.blogspot.com and follow me on twitter @skmqu

Andrew Balakshin

Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2006, 09:39:32 AM »
Hey JJohnson,

Thanks for the post, it sounds like you had a great time down there. I think I have a pretty good idea what that dust is like that you’re talking about! ;D  The pictures are great, please post some more when you have time.


Lyman Gallup

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2006, 12:33:39 PM »
The course looks dry enough to be firm and fast.  The fairways look sufficiently narrow to challenge the best players.  Maybe they should be hosting the PGA?

Greg Beaulieu

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Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2006, 01:10:25 PM »
It's off topic, but I remember following Zokol at the Canadian Open back in '79 or '80-ish at Glenn Abbey.  What made him stand out to me was the way he zoned out to a Walkman between shots.

He's a good guy. I was at the Canon Greater Hartford Open in '92 and near the end of the day went into the pro shop to browse. I managed to go out the wrong way and ended up inside a roped-off area the public wasn't supposed to be in. Coming along at the same time was Zokol and his caddy. We made eye contact, I said hi, and mentioned I was from Canada. He asked where and when I told him Halifax, he immediately recalled the pro at Ashburn, Kelly Burnett, and asked if I knew him. A very friendly fellow indeed -- I was impressed.

Jim Johnson

Re:Richard Zokol's "Sagebrush"
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 11:58:56 PM »
A few more photos, courtesy of the photographic talents of my second cousin, who came along to visit with Jeff Mingay onsite...


This is the view above and behind the first green [the white stake nearest the SUV denotes the 1st green, the stake in the immediate foreground denotes the 2nd tee]...


Below, work proceeds on the 7th fairway...


The view beyond the 7th green...


Below, one of the many views from the back 9...


Landscape panoramas...









JJ

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