News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
A revised Maidstone course profile is posted...
« on: October 20, 2002, 10:00:15 AM »
...complete with a bunch of pictures from a perfect autumn day.

Willie Park's work at the turn of the 20th century at Sunningdale and Huntercombe was a watershed event for golf course architecture. As Tom MacWood writes in Part IV of his Arts and Crafts treatise, "At a time when Victorian golf-architecture was suffering from mathematical precision, symmetry, artificiality and a total lack of imagination, Willie Park was able introduce the qualities which had been exclusive to golf by the sea -- variety, strategic thought and use of natural features. By adopting the changing aesthetic tastes and introducing them into golf design, Park revolutionized golf-architecture."

Some twenty years after Sunningdale and Huntercombe opened, Park was awarded a great opportunity at Maidstone. Like Flynn (another architect who rarely seems to get his due), when Park was given an exciting piece of property on the east end of Long Island, he too built his masterpiece.

While everyone loves the obvious dunes holes 8-10 and most love the stretch 5-14, I just don't see any weakness or toleration for sloppy play on holes 1-4 and 15-18 either. From the 1st green complex atop a knob that falls away on all sides to the boldly contoured Home Green, a game at Maidstone is a chess match all the way, especially when the wind is up. To me, there are few more clever designs in the world - or ones that are more fun to play.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2002, 10:38:27 AM »
Maybe more should be said on here about Willie Park Jr. arguably the first architect to take golf architecture out of the linksland to inland sites with the first real quality architecture!

The greens I sometimes think don't get anywhere enough of the credit they should at Maidstone are greens #2 and #13.

I think #2 is an even harder green to approach than NGLA's #7 because the diagonal runs away from you far more than NGLA's and as such the distance from front to back can play longer for approach shots and it can't be seen at all well from the approach because the bunkering on the left side (not really a road hole bunker) obscures most of the green and very much hides the added distance to the middle and certainly the back!

#13 is a wonderfully set up and oriented green that really doesn't much appear to be with all kinds of potential for approach shot mistakes on what would even seem to be good shots. The very effective false front always bothers you with a front pin but most people don't seem to understand the almost hidden diagonal of the entire right side of that green. It makes it so easy to hit the ball over the green when you think you've hit a great shot. In a way the approach shot playbaility of the right side of #13 is a lot like the right side of a road hole green!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Geoff Shackelford

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2002, 12:36:01 PM »
Is the Maidstone site the most ideal ever for a golf course? It might get my vote.

Dunes, water, subtle movement, wind, little roads to cross, the uphill/downhill side-by-side 1 and 18 setup, the place is impossible to find, you drive by holes as you come in...it's all there. Maybe not as grand as Cypress Point, but in terms of walkability, distinct variety, memorability, and overall character, I can't think of many tracts of land I'd rather walk and build a course on. And as you point out Ran, what was created architecturally (and what was left alone) takes full advantange of the site.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2002, 01:24:00 PM »
Geoff:

Though overshadowed by other courses in the neighborhood, Maidstone is really cool, I completely agree.

FYI, it also has an interesting club history detailing the evolution of the course and club. One of the best, in my opinion.

Once again, Ran has come up with a first class profile. Does anyone do it better?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chip Royce

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2002, 04:02:07 PM »
Ran;
Great profile - I greatly appreciate your thoroughness both in words and pictures.
Prior to your write-up, I would have preferred to play others in the area. However, after seeing this profile, I am DYING to get on now. The various strategic carries and varied angles to the green greatly intrigue me. I can only imagine a 20 knot wind on a warm June afternoon wreaking havoc to one's game.
C
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2002, 04:49:17 PM »
Ran
Well done again. The course looks inspiring and a hell of a lot of fun.

It sounds like Park employed his favorite green - The Table - at Maidstone. It is a green with a pronounced step or table across the back, based on a hole at Musselbugh. He supposedly used it on every course he designed, and sometimes more than once.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Josh Mahar

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2002, 04:50:00 PM »
I couldn't agree more about Ran's statement about Maidstone being one of the most clever designs and fun to play.  Probably one of the funnest rounds of golf I have ever played.  The routing is superb--always keeping you guessing where you are going next.  Not to take anything away from NGLA and Shinnecock, but I would play Maidstone every day if I could just because it provided more options for my average ability.  Oh and what a great walk!!  You feel so alive!!  GOOD STUFF!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2002, 05:02:52 AM »
The thing about Maidstone that I view as its biggest asset but many others view as its biggest drawback is it happens to be about the best example of any course I can think of that depends on the WEATHER for its EXTREME VARIABILITY!

Someone might be able to logically conclude that any course, even a very simple one that depended on weather variability, might be an inherently weak course somehow but this is not the case with Maidstone.

It certainly can be easy to score on in calm good weather but when the weather enters in as a factor the architecture of the golf course seems to take over and enter into the equation in an unusually symbiotic and effective way!

All the members who play the course in all kinds of conditions understand this in often minute detail and it's one of the primary reasons they love the course so much!

In this way Maidstone is vastly different than some flat little nothing course that weather could not effect the playability of to even 1/10 of the extent it does at Maidstone--or Maidstone does!

The members generally point to one hole as good evidence of this interesting characteristic--hole #14! For even good players this 148 yard hole can be played with a PW to a 2 iron, and missing this little hole's green surface is no fun at all!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:10 PM by -1 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2002, 12:14:25 PM »
TEPaul,

I think the weather/wind factor adds incredible variety, even on the same day.

I recall playing 36 holes one day, and it felt like every hole was vastly different.

It's a great asset to the golf course, and to the challlenge and enjoyment of the game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2002, 06:48:42 PM »
Pat:

I read your last post a few times and it appears it's something we may agree on 100%!

Are you certain you don't think the wind/weather at Maidstone might be in some way biased towards someone?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2002, 10:56:46 AM »
TEPaul,

Now that you mention it, yes, the wind is biased at Maidstone.

Against those golfers who hit a high fade/slice.

Why didn't I see this ?
Why are you the one responsible for uncovering this bias ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Hendren

Re: A revised Maidstone course profile is posted..
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2002, 11:06:31 AM »
Wow!  I'm verclempt.  Henceforth, I'll have a hard time staying down on the farm.

Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back