[Ran Morrissett]

Many of us have made friends through this site.

Those friends in turn may invite us to come play their course.

Once there, we are insistent on paying our guest green fee as well as paying for our caddie and our host’s caddie as well. Perhaps we treat our host to a nice dinner afterwards. All this falls under the term ‘obvious’ and applies to 90% plus of those reading this.

However, more and more, I hear of people saying they are members of GolfClubAtlas as a way of inviting themselves onto a course. Horror stories include a GCA.com poster calling a private club member on his cell phone on the weekend who the member didn’t even know to coordinate a round and remote private clubs being bombarded by people introducing themselves as members of GolfClubAtlas.com.

Such boorish behavior gives GCA.com a black eye, and that sickens me. The health of this site is dependent on Discussion Group participants discussing architectural issues, be it on Travis, Tillinghast, Raynor, Thomas, etc. The rub is that much of the best work of these architects is found at private clubs. Thus, the health of this site is tied to members of private clubs feeling free to discuss such matters without worrying about being hounded for access.

More and more, people suggest that I take the Discussion Group off line, with access restricted via a password. They contend many more club/board members would participate if their comments weren’t open to the world-wide web. Perhaps they are right but I have resisted that tact to date as the Discussion Group has been of great value to lurkers and people in general interested in learning more about golf course architecture. By reaching more people, I contend/hope, the site helps more.

Participants within the Discussion Group who want to use this site as a means to pry, bully, or cajole their way onto courses will find that their spot disappears among the 1,500 registered participants. There is no three strike rule in golf either. Odds of re-joining at a much later date aren’t good.

Golf is still a game of gentlemen, though people like Ted Sturges, Jeff Goldman, Brad Miller, etc.   continually stretch that term. We all know what the right behavior is. To the small number of people that find acting gracious a burden, please email me at morrissettr@ccafinancial.com and I’ll give your spot to one of the people waiting to join.

Cheers,

[Bill_McBride]

Ran, thank you for that well-phrased thought.  I believe almost 99.44% of your devoted fans (such as me!   ) are glad to see this rather obvious policy stated out loud on the forum.

[MargaretC]

Mr. Morrissett:

I am so very sorry that circumstances forced you initiate this thread.

My husband and I consider it our good fortune to have discovered this site because we are both interested in learning GCA.  We read this site many more times than we post.  The thought that an individual(s) would so grossly misuse access to/participation in this forum is beyond crass.  Such swine do not belong on any golf course.

Thank you very much for your vision in creating this site.  I am truly sorry that you were forced to address this issue.

Respectfully,

Meg

[Brad Swanson]

Is there any way that this very important thread can be made a sticky to stay at the top of the DG thread list permanently so all paticipants can see it and read it before it inevitably drops?

Cheers,
Brad

[Forrest Richardson]

Ran — I think you are taking this too personally. In fact, the same odd behavior is displayed sans the internet — with "real" contacts and "real" friends, in "real" settings of everyday life. I agree with Bill — there will always be the small percent of bad apples.

But, thank you for your pep talk.

[Jordan Wall]

Forrest,

I dont want to make a huge discussion out of this but If I were Ran I would be doing the same thing re: this thread.

Every horror story like Ran has told us about all reflect on him.
If I was the head of such a discussion site I would not want to have things likes this being blamed on me, or being reflected badly on me!

We all have a responsibilty to make this a great site--as it is--
We will make many friends (I know I have!)
But, trying to get on private clubs without an invitation and using this site to get on private clubs is not what GCA is about.  It is not fair that things like this reflect poorly upon Ran.  

[Forrest Richardson]

Jordan — I disagree.

Ran is hosting a "cocktail party" here. You call it a discussion group, but in reality, it is nothing more than a gathering at one's home or business. This one happens to be on-line.

Sure, he cares. Ran is a great guy. But the conduct of guests does not mean Ran is a bad person — or a good one for that matter!

He has the right to dis-invite anyone. I hope he does when they misbehave!

[Jordan Wall]

Forrest,

I agree Ran should disinvite anybody when they misbehave in such a manner.
I just think we (as a discussion Group) have a responsibilty to make sure this behavior does not happen in the first place.

And just because this group is like a gathering at one's home it still does not make it right that people follow such behavior.
It also does not make it right that such behavior reflects on Ran.

[Forrest Richardson]

Of course such behavior is not right. The world is full of self-centered idiots. My point is that such behavior is to be expected...not right of course...but expected in any decent cross-section of society. Move on. No one should take it personally.

[MargaretC]

Forrest Richardson Jordan — I disagree.

Ran is hosting a "cocktail party" here. You call it a discussion group, but in reality, it is nothing more than a gathering at one's home or business. This one happens to be on-line.

Sure, he cares. Ran is a great guy. But the conduct of guests does not mean Ran is a bad person — or a good one for that matter!

He has the right to dis-invite anyone. I hope he does when they misbehave!

With all due respect, Forrest, using your cocktail party analogy, I think most hosts would feel some degree of responsibility if a "guest" misused the host's hospitality and behaved poorly toward the host's other guests.

I think it is most unfortunate that this issue had to be addressed, but apparently the crass behavior reached a point wherein he felt the need to make a statement.

I, too, hope that "dis-invitations" are issued -- the behavior discribed is pathetic.

I doubt that anyone with a brain considers it a reflection of Ran, but I understand his desire to set the record straight.

PS:  I was obviously writing my comment as you were writing your 3rd post -- I don't want you to think that I have an interest in beating a dead horse...enough said by me.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Well said Mr. Morrissett.  Some on this site have been saying this for a while and have been attacked.  This site serves a very powerful role in the world of golf if it focuses on golf and does not become igolfdate.com.

[TEPaul]

"I just think we (as a discussion Group) have a responsibilty to make sure this behavior does not happen in the first place."

Jordan:

I'd qualify that statement and I think Ran Morrissett did qualify it.

He didn't exactly say that he or GOLFCLUBATLAS should put an end to this kind of behavior---as Forrest R said it happens and it obviously always will in golf. The phenomenon, in my experience, is although it happens and always has and probably always will, it now happens in such an indirect way as a result of the phenomenon of GOLFCLUBATLAS's reach around the world via the INTERNET.

What Ran Morrissett said, at least in my opinion, is that he's only not willing to let it happen anymore via GOLFCLUBATLAS.com or in its name.

The other reality that isn't even the result of boorish behavior of accessors is that a lot of those who are in some way connected to GOLFCLUBATLAS, even if indirectly, are just not so willing to do this kind of thing anymore, and certainly not at the rate they may have in the past.

Individual accessors may not understand this very well because most of them just don't understand the realities of members and clubs when it comes to access. It's not even a matter of elitism or privacy or anyhing like that---it's become a numbers problem.

Most club members do not have the unlimited abilty to host as many people as they may want to or like to. Most clubs, particularly the popular and famous ones, have limitations on this type of thing with any of their members.

Most accessors may not appreciate it but all these private golf clubs are really for those people who pay for them, and after a while too much access starts to impact that.

It just amazes me that some think they have some kind of consitutional right to play private courses to which they do not belong or basically know nothing about.

America may be perceived as a democracy but it's not totally socialistic---not yet anyway, and not in one segement of golf---that segement that so many seem to be attracted to.

[wsmorrison]

The misbehavior of a few does not reflect on any one individual (our host), but as he says it does reflect on our community of members in the GCA.com club.  

Members of GCA.com can freely act improperly and try to invite themselves to a private club through a member they may or may not know.  There should be consequences to such actions.  As a matter of degree, asking for access from someone you don't know or help from someone that isn't a member of the club is in very poor taste.  If done systematically they should expect to be expelled at some point.  

For clubs that allow unaccompanied play, even at ultra-high green fees, please remember that the host (who may or may not know you) is ultimately responsible for the unaccompanied guest(s).  And that it is not a privilege you are buying but a favor that you are asking.

Ultimately it is the private club member that can keep this issue in check by simply saying in a polite manner, "I'm sorry, I just do not make arrangements with someone I do not know."  

One fellow GCAer recently that I did not know in any capacity except for a high regard for his posts, called me to get together, but only after a mutual friend approached me on the subject and he vouched for this individual.  That was enough for me.  We got together, had a terrific game and a very pleasant dinner afterwards.  I am happy to say that I made another friend through this community, which resulted in Ran's vision and commitment.  My point is, there are ways to make things happen.  Taking the proper approach goes a long way.  Being a member of GCA.com provides no inherent privileges yet does demand some common sense and courtesy to fellow members.

[TEPaul]

Look, I'm beginning to feel bad about this whole access issue.

America is the land of opportunity and entrepeneurship, right? I tell you what---if you want access to almost any club and course I think I can arrange it even if I don't know you and it's completely indirect.

If you want to act polite and appropriate at the course I'll only charge you $2,000. But if you want to act like a complete boor and even take all your clothes off on the first tee and scream at the top of your lungs, "All Rich and priveleged private club people are a bunch of arrogant elitist Republican snobs and assholes and I should have as much right s they do to play this course any time I want", I can arrange for that too.

That last bit, though, will cost you $29,998.27. That's per person, by the way, but I can get into group discounts.

Any takers for some of the world's premier golf courses?  

[John Kavanaugh]

TEPaul,

When does someone "know" you...Does having talked on the phone count.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
When does someone "know" you...Does having talked on the phone count."

Barno:

If I consider that everyone I've talked to on the phone in my life "knows me", I'd pretty much have to figure I'd be in some real hot water---wouldn't you agree?  

[Andrew Thomson]

what I don't get is where people stumble across these 'cell phone' numbers to make the cold call about access?

How does one get someones phone numer without asking them, or asking one of their aquaintances?

TEPaul: is this a pet topic for you?  I remember you dominated the last thread on this issue as well.

[Andrew Thomson]

1900 ACCESS

[Gary Daughters]

I'll probably get laughed off the board for this one.

But has anyone considered the idea of just being invited as opposed to inviting oneself?

Sounds like some of you guys are trying to fill up dance cards.

Well, duh.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Gary,
Probably the most intelligent thought (which I've expressed the same thing to many of the offenders) seen yet.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Andrew -- over here in the States, these days most of us have contacts in the Central Intelligence Agency or National Security Agency.

Whether we want those contacts or not!

I heard just recently one of our offending access hounds was taken down to the Guantanamo Bay Golf & Racket Club and given the special treatment. It must have been really relaxing as we haven't heard from him since.....

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