O/T Is Lytham odd man out ?

[john_stiles]

Is Lytham the odd man out of the rota ?

Every 5 years The Open is at  TOC.  Carnoustie seems 'back',  Turnberry seems 'IN', etc.
 
Of the venues,  Lytham seems to have the least room to add length in present routing.   Adding to the 2nd, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 16th, 18th would be difficult.

What is the speculation after 2010 for The Open ?  The other majors and Ryder Cup have announced past 2012.

2011 would seem to be 'Lythams' turn.

[Phil McDade]

Does Lytham need length?

In '01, Duval went -10, runner-up was -7, and more than half the field that went under par that week was bunched between -4 and -6 -- that seems like a pretty good examination. Lytham's challenging nature has always seemed to me to lie in its very tough collection of par 3s, its demands on accurate driving, and its tough bunkering. Not necessarily a course you can overpower with length.

[john_stiles]

Phil,

Good question.  All I have is another question.   Was Lytham the last Open with a majority of wound Haskell balls ?

It seems whenever visiting an Open venue, I always look back to find the new championship tees.  At Troon, Birkdale, etc,  you can usually spot these appendages back in the heather, raised up just a bit.

There just isn't room in many spots at Lytham.

But, I am just asking about Lytham,  partly because there is a vacuum of Open course announcements as opposed to other major events.

[Phil McDade]

John:

I'm assuming 2011 is the next vacancy (I haven't checked). I do worry that, by then (even five years down the road),  technology will continue to "shorten" courses. I think Lytham is the most constricted of the Open venues -- even TOC has managed to infringe upon the Eden for space for tees. Still, the USGA has seen fit to put the US Open at Merion, which will be quite short by today's standards, and I hope they keep Lytham in the mix (or, for Michael Moore, the rota...).

Don't know about the Haskell ball and Lytham; I do know Hoylake was where the Haskell was first used in a win while Vardon and Co. were still playing gutties in 1902, essentially ending its day.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Lytham is out?  Just becuase they haven't mentioned it lately doesn't mean its out.

In looking at www.opengolf.com - Lytham has hosted the Open 10 times and I'm sure many more to come.  The site lists the following courses and with Deal possibly back, a course may be lucky to get the event every 15 years.

Carnoustie
St Andrews
Royal Troon
Muirfield
Prestwick
Musselburgh
Turnberry
Royal Portrush
Royal Lytham
Royal Birkdale
Hoylake
Sandwich
Deal

[Wayne_Kozun]

But I highly doubt that Prestwick or Musselburgh will be hosting the Open and it is also unlikely that Royal Portrush will be hosting the tournament.  St Andrews hosts the tournament once every 5 years.  If you exclude Deal and allocate the tournament evenly amongst the rest then each course would hold the Open once a decade since there are 8 courses - 2 out of 10 to St Andrews, the rest to all other courses.  If you include Deal you make it once every eleven years.

[peter_p]

  You have to factor in geography. There are four clusters, near Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and London. The R&A probably wants to distribute The Open location somewhat equally. If Lytham, Birkdale and Hoylake all remain in the rotation they would each see the Open fewer times.
  Of the three courses, Lytham is the least accessible by major roads and furthest from population centres.
  I checked. 2011 is the next to be awarded.

[JESII]

Phil,

I think John was referring to the aarrival of the ProV1 around 2001.

John,

I'm not sure of the answer, but the ProV1 debuted in late 2000 and caught on like wildfire. I would bet Duval used the ProV1 in '01 unless he already switched to Nike's ball which was not wound either. If that is the case it may be back to '99 and Carnoustie.

[Phil McDade]

No, I just thought the Haskell/Hoylake reference was fun to add, given the historic return of the Open to Hoylake. It was a pretty clear turning point in golf technology

I'm virtually certain I remember Duval publicly thanking Nike after his Open win at Lytham for the ball he used there.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

What is fascinating about Lytham is that it still has four par 4s under 400 yards (4th, 10th, 13th and 16th), and two of those are under 350 yards.  Yet, as you point out, scoring is not noticeably lower than anywhere else.  I haven't played all the Open venues but of those I have played I reckon Lytham to be the hardest for a golfer of my mediocrity.  In my experience (and I've been to 3 Open Championships there) Lytham is no more inaccessible than any of the other Open venues.  The road approaches on the M55 are adequate and they have planned the park-and-ride system very effectively.

By the way,don't forget that Sandwich has two Open venues, Royal St George's and Prince's, although it is very unlikely that the event will return to Prince's.  

[Mark_F]

Lytham is surely more deserving of a place on the rota than either Birkdale or Troon.  

2,3,15 and 17 at least are hard to beat as a quartet of par fours, and that still leaves one of the best finishing holes in the world, the threes are good, and it has a rather more unique atmosphere than either of the two above.