Klein Pounds Medinah

[tlavin]

I just finished Brad Klein's rather blunt dissection of Medinah #3 ("no more boring example of architecture in America").  I'm surely not qualified to quibble with Brad's expert analysis of the alleged design shortcomings of the layout, but as a golf fan, I find his take on the relative "ease" of the course for championship play quite interesting and on point:

"Medinah has length.  What it doesn't have is a lot of trouble around or on the greens.  The modestly sloped greens don't unduly punish approaches that are short-sided.  With the par 5's vulnerable and little trouble elsewhere, expect lots of low scores and a tight bunching of the field."

Much of the length at Medinah is in the par 5's which the pros will handle with relative ease.  The real opportunity for big numbers, IMHO, will come when a player gambles with the driver on the tee and fails to execute out of the rough.  I don't think that the greens will scare the field this week, even if they run at 14 feet on the weekend.  These greens aren't sloped like Winged Foot, so I think the "game" will be decided on the tee and in the rough.

[Dan Herrmann]

Peter Kessler was lambasting Rees Jones' changes on Pure Golf this morning.  He rued the fact that Jones changed 17 holes of what used to be a great course.

[PThomas]

fwiw, Tom Pernice was saying yesterday that , unless it rains, the course , despite its yardage, does not play that long (I assume because it plays fast)...I think it was him that also ssaid some palyers might only need to hit driver4-5 times

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I know there are a lot of people that either love or hate Pebble Beach. The critics mostly claim that it's a site that could have had a better routing. Is this the case at Medinah? The such a glorious piece of land suffers from "18 Stakes on a Sunday Afternoon while nursing a hangover from a bottle of single malt"  Or is it simple a realy tough golf course that is much like the 2nd City itself, which is capable of winning hands down, The Rodney Dangerfield "I Don't Get No Respect" Award, year after year?

[Matt_Ward]

Dan:

Help me out -- when was Medinah # 3 great ?

Might it just be deemed great because it happens to be located in a top shelf sports town which also happens to be one of the three largest cities in the USA ?

[PThomas]

I know there are a lot of people that either love or hate Pebble Beach. The critics mostly claim that it's a site that could have had a better routing. Is this the case at Medinah? The such a glorious piece of land suffers from "18 Stakes on a Sunday Afternoon while nursing a hangover from a bottle of single malt"  Or is it simple a realy tough golf course that is much like the 2nd City itself, which is capable of winning hands down, The Rodney Dangerfield "I Don't Get No Respect" Award, year after year?

I can't comment on Medinah, cause I havent played it, but the city of CHicago should get plenty of respect, cause it's probably the best big city in this country:  very clean, beautiful, great restaurants and museums,e tc....

[tlavin]

I know there are a lot of people that either love or hate Pebble Beach. The critics mostly claim that it's a site that could have had a better routing. Is this the case at Medinah? The such a glorious piece of land suffers from "18 Stakes on a Sunday Afternoon while nursing a hangover from a bottle of single malt"  Or is it simple a realy tough golf course that is much like the 2nd City itself, which is capable of winning hands down, The Rodney Dangerfield "I Don't Get No Respect" Award, year after year?

I think that since it is the 600 pound gorilla, it's easy to take a swipe at it (at least from a distance!).  The routing is undeniably tight and tough.  For average players, the course is probably so tough that it wears on you.  I can't imagine that anybody who is lucky enough to be invited to Medinah would ever use Brad's description of "a joyless grind" to sum up their afternoon.

In the end, the "problem" with Medinah, if there is one, is that the golf course is really "designed" only for championship golf.  It is not a "members" course and it is not a loving homage to the architects of yore.  It is a somewhat repetitive, somewhat brutal and always demanding test of golf.  And that is precisely what you need when you want to entertain the boys with one tanned hand for the weekend.

[Adam Clayman]

I can't comment on Medinah, cause I havent played it, but the city of CHicago should get plenty of respect, cause it's probably the best big city in this country:  very clean, beautiful, great restaurants and museums,e tc....

All true, but overall it has mediocre golf. There are exceptions, but I've never played them either.

Geoff said it best about Medinah. Stating words to the affect of Brad's, that the course doesn't challenge the heart of the golfer. Little risk/reward type situations due to the lack of situations that truely penalize the errant or ill conceived play.

In 1990, I saw what was probably the pinnacle of Medinah's ability to test. Brad Faxon's first round, where he found the trees repeatedly. His ability to extricate himself and even find the putting surface was amazing to watch. But sadly, that was all that was amazing. Similar to Sergios famous shot, only with lower trajectories.

[PThomas]

"mediocre" seems a bit harsh Adam!

[Andy Hughes]

Terry, if it is repetitive and brutal, why would it be unimaginable for someone to consider it a 'joyless grind'?

I am not being snarky, but (and I have never been to Chicago much less played Medinah) that would seem an apt description for an average player.

[tlavin]

Terry, if it is repetitive and brutal, why would it be unimaginable for someone to consider it a 'joyless grind'?

I am not being snarky, but (and I have never been to Chicago much less played Medinah) that would seem an apt description for an average player.

I said "somewhat" repetitive and "somewhat" brutal.  The repetitive remark refers to three of the short holes which each has a tee shot over a small lake to the green and to the overall characteristic of the course as tight and treelined.  To fans of the parkland style, this repetitive nature is a thing of beauty; to the vista-addicts, it is a confining coffin of an arboreal nightmare.  The brutal part comes from the overall difficulty of the course from the back tees.  Played from the forward tees, Medinah is a delightful walk-in-the park kind of a place.  Ego being what it is, the front tees are only used by the older members.

That said, "a joyless grind"?  No way.  The course is huge, beautiful and very difficult.  I won't quibble with the well educated purists who say that they don't like the place: it might open up a few more guest times for moi!

[Adam Clayman]

Paul- Mediocre is not harsh, it is just my opinion, after having grown-up there and having experienced greatness elsewhere.

 Sucks, would be harsh.

[Dan Herrmann]

Dan:

Help me out -- when was Medinah # 3 great ?

Might it just be deemed great because it happens to be located in a top shelf sports town which also happens to be one of the three largest cities in the USA ?

Matt - just reporting what I heard this morning.  I've never seen Medinah in person, so I don't have an opinion one way or the other

[PThomas]

Paul- Mediocre is not harsh, it is just my opinion, after having grown-up there and having experienced greatness elsewhere.

 Sucks, would be harsh.

I think we just disagree on what Mediocre means, Adam, which is fine, of course

[tlavin]

Paul- Mediocre is not harsh, it is just my opinion, after having grown-up there and having experienced greatness elsewhere.

 Sucks, would be harsh.

If you have a basis for saying that a lot of the Chicago golf courses you've played are mediocre and that you don't have an opinion on the one's you haven't, how could I argue.  I will say this: I've played almost all of the great courses in Chicago and there are plenty that deserve that adjective.  Are they as good or as plentiful as New York?  Nope.  But mediocre is at least overstatement, IMHO.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you are a highly skilled golfer go to Golfweek to read about the game.. then go to Digest to see where to play it..

[Andy Hughes]

Terry, thanks (and did you sneak in a few 'somewhats' when I wasn't looking  ?)

Besides the visuals, which you clearly like, what is it about the course that you feel makes it a great course for average players? (Or have I misunderstood what you wrote?)
I have this image of a long slog along tight fairways bordered by big trees.

[tlavin]

Terry, thanks (and did you sneak in a few 'somewhats' when I wasn't looking  ?)

Besides the visuals, which you clearly like, what is it about the course that you feel makes it a great course for average players? (Or have I misunderstood what you wrote?)
I have this image of a long slog along tight fairways bordered by big trees.

The golf course asks that you hit a draw, a fade, a short iron, a long fairway wood and that you putt fast greens with a fair amount of slope.  The fairways are rolling, with an occasional negative camber.  The greens are elevated and well-bunkered.  There's one hole without a single bunker that is probably the best hole on the course.  The par 3 water holes are beautiful and tough, but fair from the forward tees.  Finally, there is the history of the place, which cannot be discounted.  Medinah has been a host to great championship golf for decades.  The place fairly oozes history and drama.  Like it or hate it, I don't know many people who wouldn't be quite joyful at the prospect of being invited to play it.

[scott_wood]

If you are a highly skilled golfer go to Golfweek to read about the game.. then go to Digest to see where to play it..

John JakaB, I've observed from afar for several years, and heard some good tales from may of your friends.....what an great quote  !!  

[Geoffrey Childs]

In the end, the "problem" with Medinah, if there is one, is that the golf course is really "designed" only for championship golf.  It is not a "members" course and it is not a loving homage to the architects of yore.  It is a somewhat repetitive, somewhat brutal and always demanding test of golf.  And that is precisely what you need when you want to entertain the boys with one tanned hand for the weekend.

Terry

I have not played Medinah so I have this question for you.

Bethpage Black could also be considered a championship course that was not built for member play (see the sign by the first tee) and yet it in no way makes the average skill golfer uncomfortable.  BB contains several truly memorable shots (carry bunker on 4; drive and approach on 5; approach on 15, tee shot on 17 and others) that gives the player a sense of accomplishment and joy to pull off even if you do so only one in 3 tries.  Even on failure you look forward to the next try.  Does Medinah have such shots?  If it does then it gets a bad rap.  If not then it might just be the tough 18 hole slog as per its reputation.

[mikes1160]

Medinah has always been a thrill to play, hardly joyless. And I have no idea what Peter Kessler is talking about - the renovation has been a success, especially in the areas of drainage and bunkering.

One wonders if the oaks suddenly became pine trees, and somehow the course was magically transported to the East Coast, if views would change about #3  

[Brad Klein]

Wasn't quite a "pounding," and it certainly finds some strengths, along with some weaknesses and some inherent limitations -- like the routing, the vistas, and the lack of recovery challenge around the greens, and the absence of diagonal hazards. And the simplicity of the par-5s. New 17th hole is much better, as acknowledged, and I praise the tree program as far as it went -- which wasn't far enough. So from a technical standpoint and maintenance point of view the renovation work succeeded, but in the process of knocking out little cross swales that blinded a few landing areas Rees Jones did revert to a flat, horizon line cut, which merits criticism.

It was hardly a bombastic piece, one that was meant instead to provoke discussion but certainly not to take a fawning approach.

[Pat Jones]

Scaletta's right.  Psychotic, but absolutely right.

Carp all you want, but 99.6% of you would give your left nut to go play Medinah tomorrow morning.

I don't know much, but I know what I like and I like Medinah.

Brad's just doing his job.  Y'all should get over it.

PJ

[George Pazin]

I might give my left nut to play Medinah tomorrow, but that's only because that would mean I was in the PGA!

[cary lichtenstein]

I've played a # of rounds at Medinah and always played poorly there. I don't know if the trees intimidated me and I started steering or each time I was just off, but I'd rather play Cog Hill and Chicago Golf anyday.

I think the trees are very redundant, and so is punching out of them.

Brad's piece sums it up very well.