News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
biggest "mutts"
« on: August 10, 2006, 09:02:45 AM »
which courses have had the most architects involved in working on them at one point or another?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

wsmorrison

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 09:05:21 AM »
Pine Valley and Gulph Mills in the Philadelphia area probably take the blue ribbon for most architects.  

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 09:08:06 AM »


Sleepy Hollow CC

Macdonald
Raynor
Tillinghast
Winton
Robert Trent Jones
Rees Jones
Ken Dye
Hanse/Bahto

and ~40 green chairman/amatuer architects and their wives and playing buddies all serving two year terms. :D

tlavin

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 10:23:30 AM »
Medinah #3 has been reworked more often than Charo's face.  Methinks that Rees Jones got it just about right with the last re-do, although I think they should move that enormous flagpole and re-do the green on #18.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:24:34 AM by Terry Lavin »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 05:41:19 PM »
Denver  CC has had around a dozen  architects, although the result is remarkably cohesive with one  exception. The exception being a par 4 on the back nine that  goes around a lake and sticks out like a sore thumb.
   Denver CC is still on of the most delightful suprises I have had the pleasure of playing.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 06:29:56 PM »
Honorable mention:

Sunningdale, NY

 Raynor, Travis, Robert White, and then Tillinghast, and now DeVries
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Doug Ralston

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 06:33:54 PM »
Wasn't Pilgrim's Run in Michigan created by 6 different groups of architects each taking 3 holes?

Doug

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 06:34:05 PM »
For the sake of clarity....

DeVries hasn't done any dirt work at Sunningdale....yet. ;D

Good company, however. Too bad those ol' fellas aren't around to have a drink with.....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 06:46:46 PM »
I don't know for sure, but I seem to remember being told that a few different architects had a hand in the design of CC of Farmington in Farmington, CT.  I believe it's mostly Emmet, but I thought there were a few other influences as well.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 06:58:45 PM »
Denver  CC has had around a dozen  architects, although the result is remarkably cohesive with one  exception. The exception being a par 4 on the back nine that  goes around a lake and sticks out like a sore thumb.
   Denver CC is still on of the most delightful suprises I have had the pleasure of playing.

Ed, that would be #14--and you're right!
Twitter: @Deneuchre

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 07:16:42 PM »
Doug,
   I thought it was 3 guys taking 6 holes each, and then Mike tied it together.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Kyle Harris

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 07:35:40 PM »
I don't know for sure, but I seem to remember being told that a few different architects had a hand in the design of CC of Farmington in Farmington, CT.  I believe it's mostly Emmet, but I thought there were a few other influences as well.

Tom MacWood would know better, but I think Emmet did the original nine with Willie Park doing an additional nine.

Not sure after that, but Ross was known for reworking Park courses, especially in New England.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 07:37:12 PM »
I thought the architect combinations of the two premier US courses was interesting.  It implies that collaboration can work, and produce a better outcome.  Or, perhaps it is just the land that begat the course.

Pine Valley - I wish I could list all of the architects involved but I can't.

Cypress Point.  We talk about Mackenzie, but then there is Robert Hunter's significant involvement, as well as Seth Raynor's initial contribution, then Marion Hollins fine-tuning.

Perhaps similar collaborations happen today (I'm not talking about Sebonack here) but they happen within the architectural firm, through discussions between the principals, the design associates and the shapers.  The interplay of ideas occurs without the public names.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Doug Ralston

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 09:58:03 PM »
Ed;

http://www.migolfmagazine.com/features/Top50.html

This is where i got my info.

Doug

wsmorrison

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2006, 10:04:30 AM »
Tom Paul is the expert, but it seems Pine Valley had the following men with at least some design role:

Crump
Colt
Alison
Tillinghast
Flynn
Wilson
Thomas
Fazio
Govan

redanman

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2006, 10:08:06 AM »
Given the context of this question and rather than a collaboration of multiple archies as with PVGC, the leaders certainly have to be Gulph Mills and Denver CC. Both are are around 14 or so.

You have to be a Tom Paul to figure out those kind of places (he actually did the nice treatsie on Gulph Mills and their historical development.

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2006, 10:33:22 AM »
Of some of the newer courses The Old Head deserves a mention.

From their website

'Designed and constructed by a unique team, Ron Kirby - former designer at Jack Nicklaus’s Golf Design Services, Paddy Merrigan - Australian course architect and agronomist, Liam Higgins - one of Ireland’s best known golf professionals currently on the Seniors Tour, the late Eddie Hackett - former Irish golf professional and golf course designer, the late Dr. Joe Carr - Ireland’s most successful international amateur golfer and finally, Haulie O’Shea – building contractor.'


I think they have consulted with a few architects since construction as well.


There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Jim Nugent

Re:biggest "mutts"
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2006, 10:55:36 AM »
Pebble Beach:

Jack Neville
Douglas Grant
Arthur Vincent (put 18th tee in current position)
William Herbert Fowler (expanded 18 from a 379 yard par 4 to the current hole)
Chandler Egan
Alister MacKenzie
Jack Nicklaus