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Stu Grant

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Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« on: August 08, 2006, 08:11:25 PM »
My apologies if this has been discussed before, but what are the main reasons why architects generally avoid designing the 18th hole as a par-3?  And for non-architects out there, how do you feel about par-3 closing holes in general?  Does it feel like an anti-climatic finish if all you have to do on the last hole is hit a short iron to the green as opposed to playing a full par-4 or par-5?

Phil McDade

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 08:44:39 PM »
Boat of Garten has an opening par 3 -- arguably the only mediocre hole on the course. Not a bad hole, just a mundane one, and mainly a way to get you away from the clubhouse  into the 17 remaining wonderful holes there.

Kettle Moraine in WI, sort of near Milwaukee, ends with a par 3, and it's a pretty good one.

Royal L&SA has the most famous starting par 3.


rjsimper

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 08:50:24 PM »
I hate em.  The only one I ever liked was Congressional Blue's, and even there I felt that, though understandable in how it was done, the 17th would be a better finisher.  Of course, they're changing the finish on me so it's no longer a valid example.

I like the one last chance at glory aspect of a driver 18th hole - even if I've been playing like an idiot, if I can stripe one on the 18th I at least have a good memory to come home with - moreso than just willing a 7 iron onto a green and wussing 2 putts in for an uneventful par.

From a stroke play competition perspective, I love the potential for a 2 or even 3 shot swing on any of the crucial final holes, and par 3s take that out of play moreso than other holes in my opinion.  


Kevin_Reilly

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 08:54:38 PM »
I like the one last chance at glory aspect of a driver 18th hole - even if I've been playing like an idiot, if I can stripe one on the 18th I at least have a good memory to come home with - moreso than just willing a 7 iron onto a green and wussing 2 putts in for an uneventful par.

From a stroke play competition perspective, I love the potential for a 2 or even 3 shot swing on any of the crucial final holes, and par 3s take that out of play moreso than other holes in my opinion.  



For all the reasons you dislike them as a finisher, I like them at the close of the opening nine.  Burlingame CC has a short one that brings you back to the clubhouse nicely - short over a barranca.  
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Joe Hancock

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 08:56:29 PM »
From a stroke play competition perspective, I love the potential for a 2 or even 3 shot swing on any of the crucial final holes, and par 3s take that out of play moreso than other holes in my opinion.  

Ryan,

Imagine the 2nd or the 9th from Kingsley as a finisher, then tell me there isn't a chance of a huge shot swing. If you haven't been there, then you won't understand.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

david h. carroll

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 08:59:56 PM »
But the old 17th at Congo will now be the 18th---hardly anything exciting--a downhill 425yd par 4....there's no "there" there. :-\

peter_p

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 09:08:20 PM »
If they would only reverse the nines at Crystal Downs! Great one at Pasatiempo. The positioning of the clubhouse has a lot to do with why there are so few great ones. The older ones on higher ground limit the possibilities.


Patrick_Mucci

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 09:44:45 PM »
Stu Grant

GCGC
Congressional
Preakness Hills
Forest Hills

Present interesting finishing holes.

Perhaps that was the fit that allowed the architect to produce 17 other good holes.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 09:45:18 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

A.G._Crockett

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 09:50:30 PM »
East Lake in Atlanta
Hope Valley in Durham, NC

Both Ross courses, both great finishing holes, both with the opportunity for multiple stroke swings.

It does seem, though, that we are listing older courses.  Why the bias against them today?  I can think of good reasons to have them, such as Pat's mention of the best possible routing.  

As to why not to finish with a three, I'll guess and say that adding the driver to the equation, or at least the decision of whether or not to hit the driver, adds drama and strategy to a finishing hole that is desirable.  (See "Open, U.S., 2006" for further details on this theory.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 09:57:37 PM by A.G._Crockett »
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jesse Jones

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 09:57:45 PM »

I especially like the par 3 finish at the Cascades..
The reason I enjoy it is because the of the 3-5-5-3 finish.
The 15th is tough as nails.
16 and 17 are risk reward Par 5's.
The 18th isn't all that tough, unless you need a birdie..
A possible downhill slider for a birdie and a win is pretty special.

Craig_Rokke

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2006, 10:04:23 PM »
I liked it, too. The Cascades' is the only one I've ever played.

wsmorrison

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 10:39:37 PM »
Jesse and Craig,

Agreed, the finish at The Cascades is excellent as is the par 3 finisher.  If the 14th and 15th were as Flynn left it when he died, it would be even better.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2006, 12:31:28 AM »
CLOSING PAR 3S
Airport G Cse, Columbus, Ohio - 18th is 163 yds. par 3.
Alice Municipal G Cse, Alice, Texas - 18th is 190 yd. par 3.
The Alisal (Ranch Cse), Solvang, Calif. - 18th Is 199 yd. par 3.
Allentown (Pa.) Municipal G Cse “Benner Fairways�- 18th is 170 yd. par 3.
Amherst (N.H.) CC - 18th is 152 yd. par 3.
Apple Mountain G&CC, Belvidere, N.J. - 18th is 205 yd. par 3. Previous hole is a 656 yd. par 6.
Ash Brook G Cse, Scotch Plains, N.J. - 18th is 180 yard par-3.
Augusta CC, Staunton, Va. - 18th is 178 yd. par 3. Cse also has back to back par 5s.
Bartlett Hills GC, Bartlett, Ill. - 18th is 163 yds. par 3.
Bay Hills GC, Arnold, Md. -- 18th is 231 yd. par 3. Cse has only one par 5.
Bear Creek CC, Woodinville, Wash. - 18th is 247 yds. par 3 over water.
Belmont G Cse, Richmond, Va. (FKA Hermitage CC) - 18th is a 167 yd. par 3 (shortened due to road widening)
Binghamton CC, Binghamton, N.Y. - 18th is 205 yd. par 3.
Blythe Municipal G Cse, Blythe, Calif. - 18th is 180 yd. par 3
Boca Lago G&CC (West Cse), Boca Raton, Fla. - 18th is 198 yds. par 3.
Bonneville G Cse, Salt Lake City, Utah - 18th is 182 yd. par 3.
Bowling Creek (Ky.) CC - 18th is a par 3.
Brooklea CC, Rochester, N.Y. - 18th is 190 yd. par 3.
Brookside GC, Saline, Mich. - 18th is 135 yds. par 3.
Bryce Resort GC, Bayse, Va. - 18th is 158 yds. par 3.
Buncombe County G cse, Asheville, N.C. - 18th is 230 yd. par 3.
Burning Tree CC, Greenwich, Ct. - 18th is 195 yds. par 3.
Byron Hills G Cse, Byron Center, Mich.- 18th is 180-yd. par 3.
Camarillo Springs G Cse, Camarillo, Calif. - 18th is 193 yd. par 3.
Cascades GC, Hot Springs, Va. - 18th is 192 yds. par 3.
Casper (Wyo.) CC - 18th is 165-yard par 3. Ninth is also par 3, 207 yds.
Cavalier G & Yacht C, Virginia Beach, Va. - 18th is 182 yd. par 3.
Center Square (Pa.) GC - 18th is 132? yd. par 3.
Chapel Hills G Cse, Ashtabula, Ohio - 18th is 230 yd. par 3.
Cherry Hills Lodge & G Cse, Sturgeon Bay, Wis. - 18th is 120 yd. par 3.
Christmas Lake GC, Santa Claus, Ind. - 18th is 220 yd. par 3.
Citrus Hills G&CC (Oaks Cse), Hernando, Fla. - 18th is 195 yd par 3. Ninth is also a par 3, 138 yds.  
The Club at Sonterra (Deer Canyon Cse), San Antonio, Tx. - 18th is 185 yd. par 3.
Coachman's Inn GC, Edgerton, Wis. - Now a 27-hole cse. When 18, 18th was 180 yd. par 3. So was the 9th.
Concho Valley CC, Concho, Ariz. - 18th is a 175-yd. par 3.
Concord International GC, Kiamesha Lake, N.Y. - 18th is 221 yd. par 3.
Congress Lake C., Hartville, Ohio - 18th is 129 yd. par 3
Congressional CC (Blue Cse), Bethesda, Md. - 18th is 179 yd. par 3
Congressional CC (Gold Cse), Bethesda, Md. - 18th is 197 yd. par 3
Countryside G Cse, Lowellville, Ohio - 18th is 179 yd. par 3. 9th is 163 yds. par 3.
Deal (N.J.) G&CC - 18th is 170-yard par 3.
The Desert Mountain C (Geronimo Cse), Carefree, Ariz. - 18th is 197 yd. par 3.
Drumlins CC (West Cse), Syracuse, N.Y. - 18th is 150 yd. par 3.
Dundee Resort GC, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia - 18th is 188 yds. par 3.
Dunstable Downs GC, Dunstable, Bedfordshire, England. - 18th is a par 3
Dusty Hills CC, Marion, S.C. - 18th is 185 yds. par 3.
Eagle Mountain G Cse, Brigham City, Utah - 18th is 223 yd. par 3.
Eagle Nest GC, North Myrtle Beach, S.C. - 18th is 185 yd. par 3
East Lake G.C., Atlanta - 18th is a par 3.
Elm Tree G Cse, Cortland, N.Y. - 18th is 125 yd. par 3.
Elma Meadows Golf Course, Elma, New York - 18th is 223 yds. par 3.
Endwell Greens GC, Endwell, N.Y. - 18th is 205 yd. par 3
Eureka (Cal.) GC - 18th is 174 yd. par 3.
Fairfield (Ohio) GC - 18th is 177 yds. par 3.
Fairview G. Cse., St. Joseph, Mo. - 18th is 163 yd. par 3.
Fairview G. Cse, Quentin, Pa. - 18th is 173 yd. par 3.
Forest Hill Field C, Bloomfield, N.J. - 18th is a par 3.
49ers CC, Tucson, Ariz. - 18th is 206 yd. par 3.
Foster (R.I.) CC - 18th is 195 yds. Also, 17th is a 170 yd par 3.
Forsyth (Geor.) GC - 18th is 157 yds. par 3
Frank E. Peters Municipal G Cse, Nevada, Mo - 18th is 168 yd. par 3.
French Lick Springs Resort (Valley Cse), French Lick, Ind. - 18th is 179 yd. par 3
Garden City G.C., Garden City, N.Y. - 18th par 3
General Burnside State Park G Cse, Burnside, Ky. - 18th is 218 yd. par 3
Gibson Woods G Cse, Monmouth, Ill. - 18th is 235 yds.
Glen Garden G&CC, Fort Worth, Tx - 18th is 164 yards.
Golden Belt GC, Great Bend, Ks. - 18th is 131 yd. par 3.
Grandview Public G Cse, Custer, Wash. - 18th is 178 yd. par 3.
Green Meadow GC (North Cse), Hudson, N.H. - 18th is 152-yd. par 3
The Greenbrier (Old White Cse), White Sulphur Springs, W.Va. - 18th is 163-yd par 3.
Greenhills CC, Ravenswood, W.Va. - 18th is 185 yds. par 3.
Greensburg (Pa.) CC - 18th is 129 yard par 3. 17th is also a par 3.
Grosse Ile Golf & Country Club, Mich. - 18th is a par 3.
Hanover C.C., Abbottsville, Pa. - 18th is 193 yard par 3.
Harbour Trees GC, Noblesville, Ind. - 18th is 165 yd. par 3.
Hidden Valley Resort & C, Gaylord, Mich. - 18th is 226 yd. par 3, dubbed “Bogeyman.�
Highpoint CC, Montague, N.J. - 18th is a 132 yard par 3.
The Homestead GC, Hot Springs, Va. - 18th is 171 yard par 3.
Honey Run G&CC, York, Pa. - 18th is a 187 yd. par 3.
Hope Valley CC, Durham, N.C. - 18th is 201 yard par 3.
Hueston Woods Golf Resort, Oxford, Ohio - 18th is 222 yd. par 3
Hunt Valley GC, Md. - 18th is 222 yd. par 3.
Indian Bluff G Cse, Milan, Ill. - 18th is 127 yds. par 3
Indian Creek G&CC, Chatham, Ont. - 18th is 179 yds. par 3.
Indian Springs GC, Marianna, Fla. - 18th is a 219 yd. par 3.
Inn of the Mountain Gods, Mescalero, N.M. - 18th is 226-yd. par 3.
Innis Arden GC, Old Greenwich, Ct. - 18th is 192 yds. par 3.
Johnson Park GC, Racine, Wis. - 18th is 193 yd. par 3, has alternate greens
J.R. G Cse, Edmonton, Alberta - 18th is 190 yd. par 3. 9th is also a par 3, 250 yards.
Kaneohe Klipper GC, Hawaii - 18th is 182 yd. par 3.
Kettle Moraine GC, Douseman, Wis. - 18th is 152 yds. par 3.
La Mantarraya GC, Manzanillo, Mexico - 18th is 141 yd. par 3.
Lake Arbor GC, Arvada, Colo. - 18th is 172 yd. par 3.
Lake Chelan G Cse, Chelan, Wash. - 18th is 173 yds. par 3.
Lake Mohawk GC, Sparta, N.J. - 18th is 195-yard par 3. (9th is also a par 3, 174 yds.)
Lake Worth GC, Lake Worth, Fla. - 18th I 170 yd. par 3.
Lakeshore GC, Durham, N.C. - 18th is 210 yd. par 3.
Lakewood CC, Tullahoma, Tenn. - 18th is 184 yd. par 3.
Lancaster (Ohio) CC - 18th is 234 yds. par 3
Leavenworth (Wash.) GC - 18th is 192 yds. par 3.
Leo Donovan G Cse, Peoria, Ill. - 18th is 183 yds. par 3.
Leesburg Westpark GC, Leesburg, Va. - 18th is 174 yd. par 3.
Lehigh (Fla.) GC (North Cse) - 18th is 176 yd. par 3.
Loch Ledge GC, Yorktown Heights, N.Y. - 18th is 220 yd. par 3.
Lost Creek C, Austin, Tx. - 18th is 198 yds. par 3.
Loveland G Cse, Loveland, Colo. - 18th is 198 yds par 3.  
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2006, 12:32:21 AM »
List Part 2 (too long to post in one, according to the boards rules)

Magnolia (N.C.) CC - 18th is 165 yd. par 3.
Medinah C.C. (No. 1 Cse), Medinah, Ill. - 18th is a par 3.
Meadowood GC, Burlington, Ky. - 18th is a par 3.
Madeline Island Golf Links, La Pointe, Wis. - 18th is 172 yd. par 3
Maple Run G Cse, Thurmont, Md. - 18th is 176 yds. par 3.
Meadowcreek G Cse, Charlottesville, Va. - 18th is 163 yds. par 3.
Mill Race GC, Benton, Pa. - 18th is a 188 yds. par 3.
Mirror Lakes CC, Lehigh, Fla. - 18th is 189 yd. par 3.
Monroe CC, Monroe, N.C. - 18th is a 212 yd. par 3
Monte Mayor G&CC, Spain - 18th is 149 yds. par 3, the only par 3 on the back 9.
Mount Airy Lodge GC, Mt. Pocono, Pa. - 18th is 231 yds. par 3.
Myrtle Beach National GC (West Cse), Myrtle Beach, S.C. - 18th is a 221-yd. par 3.
Needles (Calif.) Municipal G Cse - 18th is a par 3.
Nettle Creek CC, Morris, Ill. - 18th is 155 yds. par 3.
North Kingstown Municipal G Cse, North Kingstown, R.I. - 18th is 158 yd. par 3.
Norwich (Conn) GC - 18th is a 175-7d par 3
Oak CC, DeSoto, Ks - 18th is a 106 yd. par 3 to an island green.
Oak Grove GC, Oxford, Ind. - 18th is 116 yd. par 3.  9th is also a par 3, 161 yds.
Oak Hills CC, San Antonio, Tx. - 18th is 198 yd. par 3. (Ninth is also a par 3, 155 yds.)
Ocean Reef C. (Dolphin Cse), Key Largo, Fla. - 18th is 147 yd. par 3.
Ocean Shores (Wash.) GC - 18th is 162 yds. par 3. Ninth is also a par 3, 191 yds.
Ogden G&CC, Ogden - 18th is 190 yards par 3.
Old Cse at Loveland, Loveland, Colo. - 18th is 198 yd. par 3.
Otis Park G Cse, Bedford, Ind. - 18th is 182 yd. par3 .
Pacific Grove Municipal G Cse, Pacific Grove, Calif. - 18th is par 3.
Parkstone G.C., Parkstone, Dorset, England. - 18th is a par 3
Palmira G&CC, St. John, Ind. - 18th is 169 yd. par 3.
Pasatiempo GC, Santa Cruz, Calif. - 18th is a par 3.
Perry G Cse, Shoemakersville, Pa. - 18th is 185 yard par 3.
Pierce Lake G Cse, Chelsea, Mich. - 18th is 234 yd. par 3
Pleasant Valley GC, Stewartstown, Pa. - 18th is 242 yd. par 3.
Prairie Creek CC, Rogers, Ark. - 18th is 185 yd. par 3.
Presidents G Cse, North Quincy, Mass. - 18th is 135 yd. par 3.
The Quarry, Chattanooga, Tenn - 18th is 162 yds par 3.
Red Apple Inn & CC, Heber Springs, Ark. - 18th is 203 yd. par 3.
Riverside G Cse, Indianapolis, Ind. - 18th is 113 yds. par 3.
Rockland (Me.) GC - 18th is 195 yds. par 3. 10th & 11th are back to back par 3s.
Rogell G Cse, Detroit, Mich. - 18th is 163 yd. par 3.
Rolling Hills CC, Paducah, Ky. - 18th is 170 yds. par 3
Rolling Hills G Cse, Pulaski, Pa. - 18th is 184 yds. par 3.
The Rolls of Monmouth, Gwent, Wales - 18th is a par 3.
Royal Scot GC, Lansing, Mich - 18th is 160 yd. par 3.
Sagamore Springs GC, Lynnfield, Mass. - 18th is 212 yds. par 3.
St. Enodoc GC, Cornwall, England - 18th is a par 3
San Juan Hills CC, San Juan Capistrano, Cal. - 18th is 205 yd. par 3.
Sandpiper Golf Links, Goleta, Calif. - 18th is 174-yd. par 3.
Scottsdale Silverado GC, Scottsdale, Ariz. - 18th is a par 3.
Shady Hollow G Cse, Cub Run, Ky. - 18th is a 133 yard par 3 with an island green.
Shamrock G Cse, Burlington, N.C. - 18th is 155 yard par 3.
Shannon Green GC, Fredericksburg, Va. (NLE) - 18th was 224 yds. par 3.
Shelbyville (Ky.) CC - 18th is a par 3.
Shiloh Springs GC, Platte City, Mo. - 18th is 185 yd. par 3.
Smoky Hill CC, Hays, Ks - 18th is 138 yd. par 3.
Spring Creek G Cse, Spring Valley, Ill. - 18th is 156 yds. par 3. 9th is also a par 3, 175 yds.
Spring Lake CC, Quincy, Ill. - 18th is 230 yds.
Spring Valley G Cse, Hersey, Mich. - 18th is 180 yd. par 3.
Spring Valley Lake CC, Victorville, Calif. - 18th is a par 3.
Sugar Isle Golf Country, New Carlisle, Ohio - 18th is a 150 yd. par 3.
Sugar Loaf Resort, Cedar, Mich. - 18th is 193 yds. par 3.
Surf G & Beach C, Myrtle Beach, S.C. - 18th is a 217 yd. par 3.
Tam O'Shanter GC, Hermitage, Pa. - 18th is 171 yd. par 3.
Tamarac GC, Lima, Ohio - 18th is a 139 yd. par 3.
Tampa Palms GC, Tampa, Fla. - 18th is par 3.
Thunder Bay G Resort, Hillman, Mich. - 18th is 119 yds. par 3.
[The] Tides Lodge & Resort GC, Irvington, Va. - New 18th is 136 yd. par 3. Old 18th is now a par-4 bye hole.
Town and Country Club, St. Paul, Minn. - 18th is 140 yd. par 3.
Turf Valley Resort & CC (East Cse), Ellicott City, Md. - 18th is 165 yds. par 3.
Twin Hills CC, Joplin, Mo. - 18th is a 187-yard par 3.
Twin Oaks GC, Statesville, N.C. - 18th is 188 yd. par 3
Tyler Creek GC, Alto, Mich. - 18th is 200 yd. par 3.
The Underwood G Cse, Fort Bliss, Tx. - 18th 9s 154 yd. par 3.
University of Illinois GC (Orange Cse), Champaign, Ill - 18th is 156 yd. par 3.
Upper Perk G Cse, Pennsburg, Pa. - 18th is 180 yd. par 3. 9th is also a par 3.
Valley CC, Denver, Colo. 18th is 208-yds. par 3.
Van Cortlandt G Cse, Bronx, N.Y. - 18th is 210 yd. par 3.
Vista Valley CC, Vista, Calif. - 18th is a par 3.
Walnut Creek G Cse, Marion, Ind. - 18th is 175 yd. par 3.
The Wellman C., Johnsonville, S.C. - 18th is a 167 yd. par 3.
Whetstone Golf & Swimming, Caledonia, Ohio - 18th is 167 yd. par 3.
White Beeches G&CC, Haworth, N.J. - 18th is 215-yard par 3.
Willow Creek GC {FKA The GC at Oak Brook Hills}, Oak Brook, Ill. - 18th is 178 yds. par 3.
Willow Run G. Cse., Sioux Falls, S.D. - 18th is 185 yard par 3.
Wright Patterson G Cse, Ohio - 18th is 168 yds. par 3.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2006, 12:58:09 AM »
...a lot of times we use short par threes when we have to lenghten a course but do not have more room so we just cut it all off at the end.....its kind of like having a short sausage link at the end of a bunch of other long ones...sometimes it becomes a par three and if we have to do more we just call the course a par 71 instead of changing anything else up stream........
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 03:34:39 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2006, 02:32:19 AM »

There's one at Blackhawk Country Club in Madison, Wisconsin, and it's really short IIRC, like 140 yards. The 16th is also a par 3 and it's not much longer, and they put it on the other side of a residential street, which backs up to Lake Mendota. So you have a 3-4-3 finish.

Real quirky course, almost boutique. The back nine is 4-4-5-5-4-4-3-4-3, and three of the par fours are less than 280 yards. The routing is claustrophobic.

What's odd is the front nine is basically "normal"; although it is interesting in that it has 7 par 4s and only one 5 and one 3. The par-five is 580 yards!

So it's as if they routed a "normal" course and then realized that they were running out of room when they got to the back nine.

It's not easy. I've shot absurdly high numbers both times I've played it, although it was in competition each time.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

ForkaB

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 02:35:53 AM »
Jeff

How could you leave out Aberdour GC (197, par 3)? :o

Particularly when we start out with a par 3 too!

Rich

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2006, 03:16:40 AM »
Jeff Brauer, you clearly have too much time on your hands.

Phenomenal list, very helpful research there.

But . . . you left out Maketewah CC, Cincinnati, a Bendelow/Ross layout, as I recall, with both nines ending on par-3s.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2006, 03:16:52 AM »
Jeff

Appreciate the lists, they come from the US and England / Wales pretty much - right ? others that I've seen include Berkshire (Red), Royal St. David's, St. Pierre (Old), Forest of Arden etc.

Scotland (Brora) + Ireland would have some as well and I know a few in Australia off the top of my head (The Lakes, The Grange [NSW])

As a % of total courses in those countries I still would have thought they (P3 18th's) would be quite low ?

I have not seen Pasatiempo, St. Enodoc but I am yet to see a "very good" P3 finishing hole.

I'm not as knowledgeable on those lists either but I wouldn't have thought that there's too many there that have hosted Tournaments ?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2006, 03:28:52 AM »
Jeff

Jeepers!  I like that Grosse Ile was mentioned, the site of my one and only official ace.  Not a bad hole, but certainly not a great closer by any means.  You also listed Pierce Lake's 18th.  This is a cracking closer.  The course is a real sleeper.  Owned by Washtenaw County it is very cheap to play and it has some very good holes.  

BTW  St. Enodoc finishes with a par 4.  The 17th is a par 3 and a doozy.

BTW BTW  Add Droitwich to your list.  A very good 160 yard 18th.

Ciao

Sean
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 03:41:27 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 03:53:52 AM »
jeff,

big list... two european tour ones that come to mind which are not on your list are st.pierre and forest of arden (both UK) which have always provided exciting finishes and play-offs...

my home club (in ireland), killeen has a 180 yard finishing hole to a part island green through a narrow chute of mature trees and plantations... i stood on that last year in contention for the captains prize and knocked it into the water for a double-bogey 5... so you can't tell me there isn't big swings on a par-3... it's a cracking finishing hole that always makes your heart beat just that bit faster when there's something at stake...

with the 3 examples above in mind, i definitely see some positives in a short finisher... although i see the negatives also

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2006, 04:51:49 AM »
Probably one of the reasons, apart from the ones given above, is the fact that all the Open Championship up to 1893 were held on courses in Scotland (Prestwick, St.Andrews, Musselburgh and Muirfield) which had Par 4 finishes. This more or less presented the standard 18th Hole for a discerning championship, supporting all the arguments we are familiar with.
Kilspindie, one of the older and quirkier links golf course in Scotland, is doggedly claiming their 252 yard 18th Hole as a Par 4. The hole is down hill, to a firm landing area before an open green. In the modern ball/Club era it is easily reachable for all single handicap players. From the Tee one is expected to get down in three - an effective Par 3.
Maybe the traditional courses will have to alter their score cards to meet the needs of the  future ?

ForkaB

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2006, 04:56:23 AM »
Just to add a few more:

Mahoney's Point (Killareny)
Dornoch-Struie
Auchterdaer
Kinghorn

......all of which are very good golf holes.

And then, of course, there is always Painswick........ :)

Jay Flemma

Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2006, 05:25:38 AM »
Also Valley View Golf Club, Utica, NY (RTJ)
Amelia Island Plantation Ocean Course
Foxwoods GC (at the resort...not the "Lake of Isles" course)

...all end on short par-3s...like 135 yds...

Doesn't Higby Hills (now "stonebridge") also end on a par-3?

Ally Mcintosh

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Re:Why are Par-3 18th holes so rare?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2006, 05:29:36 AM »
how could i forget mahoney's point at killarney!... what a beautiful finishing hole