[mike_malone]

 Tommy,

   Please enlighten me ! What makes this hole good architecture ?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

From the website:

Hole 10 – 427 yards – Par 4
           
A true finesse tee shot is needed here, as an iron will need to be played to stay short of the wetland crossing the hole. Enough club is needed to get close to the wetland so the downhill second is not as long. The second shot always plays a bit longer than the yardage to this small green.

I recall that my thought was after playing there awhile ago that this hole could be a good par3 with some work. If not, then how about playing this hole from the front tees at 283y?

Can someone refresh my recollection and post a picture. The website is lacking.

[Joe Bausch]

How 'bout many pics Steve.  

Here is a shot from the middle tee box (~380 yards).  When I played on Sunday w/ DougB, I used 6 iron and you want to make a field goal over the tees ahead as shots will kick slightly right (from the tips I hit a 4 iron):



Here's a view from maybe 150 yards down the fairway, back up the hill.  It is very steep at this point.



Here's a shot from the forward tees, which anybody w/ handicap >20 should probably be playing throughout at 'Scrone.  



Here's a view from the right rough, which is where many people end up as they probably feel right is safer off the tee, but it isn't:



A perfect drive leaves a flat shot of 140 yards in:



Finally a pic over the junk, left of the green:

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe

Thanks for the pics. I'm thinking par3 for this hole now that my memory has been refreshed.

I'd like to play I'crone again next spring. But in the interests of fuel economy, I think a morning round at Wyncote followed by an afternoon at I'crone would be advantageous.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe

Thanks for the pics. I'm thinking par3 for this hole now that my memory has been refreshed.

I'd like to play I'crone again next spring. But in the interests of fuel economy, I think a morning round at Wyncote followed by an afternoon at I'crone would be advantageous.

Noooo!!!  It is a perfectly fine hole as it is!  I'm willing to bet that most people with an allergic reaction to it only played it once and took a big number and that is coloring their opinion.

A 36 hole day starting at Wyncote in the morning (before 8 AM during the summer they are just 30 bucks), followed by lunch at El Sombrero, then afternoon rate at 'Scrone is a great day.  Let's do it.  Hopefully some others like Mayday, Jim Coleman, and any other Inniscrone haters will join us.  

[mike_malone]

 Joe,

   I don't think I said I hate the course, although I didn't go back and read the old parts of the thread.. But, I do hate #10.

   Why would anyone in Delaware County drive out to play either of those courses when Glen Mills is just down the road?

  I just went back and read my comments. At that time my relationship with Jim Coleman was on the rocks and I was trying to reach out to him. We have since had a divorce. I tried!!

[Joe Bausch]

   Why would anyone in Delaware County drive out to play either of those courses when Glen Mills is just down the road?

Easy:  Wyncote and Inniscrone are almost always way cheaper than Glen Mills.  On Sunday our round at Inniscrone was 35 bucks and we had the course almost to ourselves.  Glen Mills cheapest rates are now and 60 bucks.  And they've been crowded every time I've been there, with rounds no shorter than 4.5h.  But I do like Glen Mills, but I don't want to re-direct this thread and complain about the couple of holes there I don't like, like #11.  

[David Federman]

I hate to admit it, but I agree with Malone on this one (just kidding)- if Inniscrone were closer to Philly, it might be fun to play it once every couple of years, but it is not worth the trip. Glen Mills is better in every way.

I also think there are courses that are fun to play once in a while, but which you would never want as an every day golf club. I would place Stone Harbor and The Ace Club in that category.  Might even include the Cashen Course at Ballybunion on the list as well.

[mike_malone]

 Joe,

  I sent my suggestion to Bobby Weed on how to make #11 at GM a good hole. I can't believe he hasn't responded to my email yet

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

  I sent my suggestion to Bobby Weed on how to make #11 at GM a good hole. I can't believe he hasn't responded to my email yet

Send him the message again and include my suggestion to re-do that silly green on the par 3 7th.  

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Doug,

   I find blind tee shots to an  angled landing area with varied lengths  for layups with one shot penalties as punishment for offline hits to be lousy architecture. What is the point?

Mike-

  It was obviously a tough part of the property to deal with.  Having said that, there are other holes, on other courses, that have similar features to them.  

I had thought "what if it was a driveable par 4 from the back tees, maybe 310 or so, 260 to carry the wetlands", but I'm still trying to work out a feasible drop area that is fair, but not a given.  

All in all, I didn't think the hole was all that bad.  Hit a 5-iron down the hill, have an 8 iron through pitching wedge in.  I do think the green is attractive, all by itself in the field.  Something about that just looks very appealing to my eye.  

[Jim_Coleman]

   This topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp.  Debate it here all you want; the public has spoken; the course is a failure.  Just let it die a peaceful death and move on.
    Regarding Joe's suggestion that we get together in the spring, I'm in.  However, let's try to do better than Inniscrone and Wyncote.  And, let's hope we get more than four so I can be spared playing with Mayday.  I see him enough as it is.

[mike_malone]

 Jim,
   Have you forgotten about the PFA that was part of our divorce?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tommy,

   Please enlighten me ! What makes this hole good architecture ?

More proof that knuckleheads don't read. Jim, how do you put up with this? Wayno? Couldn't you lose him on the side of a road or something? A crowded shopping mall in suburban Philadelphia?

Mayday, PLEASE read the entire thread!

I sent my suggestion to Bobby Weed on how to make #11 at GM a good hole. I can't believe he hasn't responded to my email yet...

If your statement here doesn't explain it to you loud and clear, well.....

I'm still waiting for that in depth Old Course review!

[mike_malone]

 "Convoluted" is a California word for "sucks" , I guess.

[George Pazin]

  This topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp.  Debate it here all you want; the public has spoken; the course is a failure.  Just let it die a peaceful death and move on.

Can't say that I agree with just about any of this.

A couple/few questionable holes means a course should die a deserving death? Furthermore, someone's questionable business practices reflect on the quality of the course?

I'd say the many very good to excellent holes far outweigh the couple that aren't even that bad to me - certainly I've played a lot of holes worse than #10. #5, sure, that's pretty bad, but I don't think there were really any other options there, and one bad hole doesn't merit the death of a course, for me anyway.

It's interesting to me that there are dropshot par 3s ad nauseam in the world of golf, yet people seem to hate an approach shot version. I'm about as bad a golfer as there is on this site and I didn't have any problem with the hole.

I guess if you didn't want a transitory hole, you could probably just make it a long ride down to the lower piece of property, but I think I prefer it the way it is, warts and all.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Did I mispell, convoluted?  (Dan kelly?)

[George Pazin]

Did I mispell, convoluted?  (Dan kelly?)

No, but I think you misspelled mispell.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I've been doing that a lot lately! UGH! (Old age)

Thanks George. I knew I could count on you!

[mike_malone]

 George, Tommy, and other possible gca guys who came from out of town to play in that Inniscrone outing,


    If you played fifteen or twenty other courses in the area you could understand why several locals think this hole is horrible. I guess we get spoiled around here.

[George Pazin]

mayday, if you'd play 15 or 20 public courses in western PA, you'd see that hole is common.

 

[mike_malone]

 You have my sympathies.


   I think there may be more to this topic.


   Is Gil Hanse a risk taker ? I think so. Sometimes a risk ends up in a loss but it also creates something out of the ordinary that gives us joy. I see more of those wins at Applebrook and French Creek.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike,
Amen.  Gil built a couple of holes at French Creek that some folks really hate - at first.  But the more you play them, the more you love 'em.

I love the fact that Gil builds holes that occasionally challenge the concept of par.  Some are par 4.5, some 3.5...  Pretty cool stuff!

BTW - French Creek is doing pretty well.  We have a really good membership number (but are looking for more, of course), a great new superintendent, and are looking for an experienced GM that will help take us to the next level.  Things are good in Elverson.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Before I go into it, I looked at the pictures here… https://golfclubatlas.com/countries/inniscrone-golf-club/ - and it's obvious that a LOT of bunkers have been removed and replaced with… rough, or "grass bunkers," or similar. Some were not too much in play, some were very much in play. The 16th looks quite different now, for example.

Then:


Now:

Inniscrone a great golf course?  Puhleeeese.  It is awful.

I'm in agreement here.

Based on the Fried Egg article, I played Jeffersonville on Thursday and Inniscrone on Friday. I wish I had taken Friday off, or just gone back to Jeffersonville again. As much as I liked Jeffersonville, I disliked Inniscrone. And it's not due to the conditioning (though, before the thunderstorm that hit that day, the first tee was sopping wet. The course played soggy all day, even before the thunderstorm).

On a 1-5 scale…Holes:
1 - Good. 4
2 - Good, though I thought the green was well to the left, and I'd have played a hybrid if I played it again. 4
3 - Okay. 4
4 - Played like 360, despite the card saying 430, but I have no idea where you could fit some 430-yard tees. This hole wasn't very good. Too narrow, would be a hybrid in the future. 2
5 - Horrible. 1
6 - Okay. I don't even mind that you can be blocked out by hitting it 270 in the fairway from the back tees. 3
7 - Dangerous? Line is right between 3 and 7. 2
8 - Kind of a redan, but set at 90° instead of maybe 30° to 45°? Meh. 2
9 - Blind second shot is not ideal. We were hit into as we waited at the top of the hill to see when the group ahead of us would drive off. 3
10 - Terrible. 1
11 - The only hole I took a photo of. Best on the property perhaps. 4
12 - Okay. Really long when your ball plugs, but… okay. 3
13 - Meh. Another hole that takes driver out of your hands… the second time you play it because you know better. 2
14 - Meh. 2
15 - Decent. 3
16 [size=78%]- Meh. 3[/size]
17 - Not good. Too long to be this narrow. The opposite of "width and angles." 2
18 - Strange finishing hole, but not bad. 3


In other words, I see no "really good" holes and a lot of bad holes.

The 4th green is pretty close to the same elevation as the 5th green, and currently, you have to hike uphill to the 5th tee, hit you half lob wedge down the hill, and then backtrack uphill, while the group behind waits.  Why not have the 5th tee where the current green is, and have a semi-blind uphill par 3 to the current tee location, perhaps surrounded in bunkers, Short-style?  That solves all the 'problems' that the current hole has.  Even elevation (and shorter) walk to #5 tee, uphill walk to green, very short walk to next tee.

Kid you not, we saw the marker down by the green and thought that the hole originally played uphill. I've never seen what seemed like a tee stone/marker (those big metal plates) by the green. They're generally near the tees. And the routing even seemed to say "tee off from here, hit it up there." We even said "maybe they changed it because people on the tee box for #6 were getting hit into all the time?"

[Joe Bausch]

Erik, your post confirms the expression of “that’s why there is chocolate and vanilla”.


I absolutely adore Jeffersonville. But I also really like Inniscrone.


Next time you are in the area let’s play both!

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