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Dan Herrmann

A really good article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer on architect Zaha Hadid.  Some wonderful designs, and she's a bright new light in the field.

Got me wondering if there's any connection between building architecture and golf course architecture.  Seeing some of Hadid's beautiful buildings made me think there's a definite connection, especially on the artistic side.

What do you think?

If you're interested in the Hadid article: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/living/home/15193446.htm
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 09:47:32 PM by Dan Herrmann »

Adam Clayman

Dan, I can see the stadium model relating, and perhaps some of FLW's principles, specifically randomness. But other than the way a revetted bunker looks like the Gugenhiem, I don't see your point. ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

James Edwards

Dan,

Yes.

But, theres nothing new about Zaha Hadid, shes been around ever since I was at Architecture School in Greenwich London many many years ago  :'(.   I enjoyed studying her work.. I especially enjoyed her books, most notably "The complete buildings and projects" -  wonderful visions, graphical representations and award winning competition entrys.
@EDI__ADI

Mike_Young

Yes, I think so.
My only question has been ..say....would you sit in a stadium that Michael Vick designed???  or a coliseum that Michael jordan designed????
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

TEPaul

Dan Hermann:

This is a most interesting question and one that has been touched on in the website before in various ways.

No doubt there are some important connections or similarities between building architecture and golf course architecture but it occurs to me that the most intelligent way of going about an analysis of that kind would be to first establish what the inherent DIFFERENCES are first.

It seems to me there is at least one "essayist" on here who doesn't exactly understand this or appreciate its importance well enough to go about it that way. The result becomes one where similiarities only are searched for and applied between various art forms where they don't accurately or logiically exist. The purpose appeared to be to assign various influences of one art form on another. Without the necessary "contrast" analyses combined with the "comparison" analyses simply made the essay's assumptions and conclusions inaccurate and misleading, particularly in an historical context.

The proper method of treating this question of yours, I would think, would be basically not much more than plying the old “compare and contrast” method in the beginning, particularly the "contrast" side to establish the inherent differences first.  ;)

Otherwise one can get into what one intelligent contributor on here referred to as "positivism"----eg a tendency to stretch facts to somehow suit one's preconceived conclusion. ;)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 10:03:25 AM by TEPaul »

Dan Herrmann

I was using Hadid as a metaphor for architecture, not for her work explicitely.

You could use Pei, Wright, or many others.  

I was just trying to learn if the two "architctures" share any common attributes.

In my real life, I do information architecture  (yes, I am a computer type), but I don't see any correlation between information or computer architecture and golf course architecture.

However, golf course architecture and 'traditional' architecture do seem to share a number of common traits, such as visualization, 3 dimensional thinking, the fact that they both create physical things, and the blending of art and science.

But, let's, as suggested, look at the differences:
tradional                             golf
tought at university              not so much
seen by everybody               seen only by golfers
you live/work in the bldg.       used for sport/recreation
styles change frequently        changes, but more slowly
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 09:00:57 AM by Dan Herrmann »

John Chilver-Stainer

Dan, my thoughts on the subject.

Although the normal Building Architect has to think 3-dimensional he seldom thinks curvilinear but usually in straight lines, planes and rightangles. Building elements windows, doors etc, maximisation of space and ease of construction dictate the "cubist" mind set and restricts any creative desires to do something unusual.
Only the « radical » architects who try and impose organic ideas and « art » on to a building get away from the straight line. Probably the most famous being Gaudi although recently some Architects have made some pretty wild buildings – but these are « Trophy » Buildings not your every day building architecture.

From the building professions a civil engineer is closer to a 3-D curvilinear environment. Designing roads, railways, bridges and shell structures. A civil engineer has to create forms which for the most part follow rigid structural rules defined by mathematics, which once again restrict the creative mind.

Golf Course Architecture is more about imitating the random form of natural topography. Fortunatly nature offers an immense vocabulary of shapes and forms to choose from. A creative golf course architect will think 3-D using this vocabulary and adapting it to the needs of a golf course. Variety und unpredictability being the key factors to find a 3-dimensional creation of longevity of interest.

Jari Rasinkangas

Dan,

Until these days nearly all Finnish golf architects have been building architects who have played golf.  The courses designed by them are poor.  Same looking holes with flat saucer shaped bunkers and simple greens.  Even the routing of the holes is quite boring.

By looking the results I would not recommend a building architecture education at all for a golf course architect.

John,

I agree that building architects think too much in straight lines.  The shaping on the Finnish courses are quite rough and simple.  No imagination at all.

IMO the only straight line on the golf course should be the flagstick.

Jari

John Chilver-Stainer

And even the flag stick should bend in the wind :)

T_MacWood

I do think they are related....especially the design of homes. The arangement of independent components or spaces and how they relate with one another to a create larger whole. The way the person or individual relates to the design. Integrating the design with the site, site specific designs which incorporate local materials or local traditions. Individualistic and unique design styles.

I think you can also see a corrolation with periods of architecture and periods of golf design: as an example modern architecture in the 50s and 60s and the golf architecture of the RTJ era in the same period. Cold,  formulaic designs that often lack individual character or charm.

I've often thought potential golf architects would be better off studying traditional architecture instead of landscape architecture...I think studying the architectural design process (and the history of architecture) would better prepare them for designing golf courses.

Tommy_Naccarato

I think so too, but there is also a negative side to it. (Not wanting to be negative)

Jari Rasinkangas

Tom,

Of course they are related but unfortunately many building architects are "arrogant bastards" who want to push their ideas through no matter what the costs are or do they fit the climate.

E.g. during the 70's the architects had an idea to build flat roof buildings in our northern climate.  It was a total disaster.  Many roofs started to leak after 10 or 15 years and most of them are now converted to the traditional ridge or saddle roofs.

Unfortunately there still are architects who want to create these flat roof buildings because they look so great in their eyes.

Sure, the building architects create individualistic and unique designs but I haven't seen that on the Finnish golf courses designed by them.

Or maybe it is that all these architects like the functionalistic design style that is very popular in Nordic countries.  The functionalism has created some great architectural gems but I would not like to see a pure functionalistic golf course.

Jari

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