Arthur Hills and 'links-style' courses

[Paul Richards]

Has Arthur Hills had any experience designing 'links-style' courses?

Of course, we know he hasn't designed any 'true' links courses, but what about those that advertise in the US as 'links'?

You know, the ones that have no trees on them - they are 'links' here.

So has Hills / Steve Forrest had any experience with them and how much success have they met designing them?

Cheers!

[Tim Bert]

I think that Newport National would be considered links style in the US.

I've stated more than a few times amongst the Hills bashing that I really enjoy the course.  It's near the coast, usually very windy, many of the holes can be played with run-up shots, there are places to putt around the green, and not too many trees internally on the course.  

The two times I've played it wasn't really firm and fast and the greens were holding pretty well.  It certainly wasn't a true links experience like Pacific Dunes, but it has the looks and feels like one.

[Paul Richards]

Tim

Thanks for the reply.

What are your impressions of the work that they did on that site?

[ForkaB]

Paul

His work at Half Moon Bay (Links) is very good.  Not quite great, but outside of the Bandon courses, as close to the look and feel of links as I have seen in modern US tracks.

Rich

PS--of course, he had his chief sherpa Pete Galea going for him on that gig.,,,,,

[TaylorA]

He did the Washington County golf course in Wisconsin. Pictures and website here:

http://www.golfwcgc.com/photos.php

For the most part, it is treeless, less some evergreens that have been planted here and there. It's very windy - I think it was about 45 degrees and blowing about 20 MPH with gusts to 30 MPH the day I played.

Not a bad golf course actually.

[Ron Farris]

Taylor,

Is this really a links type course without tree?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Hills was hampered by a smallish parcel of land at Half Moon Bay.  I concur that he did a commendable job.  The finishing holes are pretty dramatic.

[TaylorA]

Well, it's been about 6 years since I've played there so perhaps they've done some planting. It was a farm before it was built, so it was basically treeless. Along the perimeter, there are trees.

Of course it's not a "links" course. However, given the typical winds in the area and the <i>general</i> lack of trees on the course, it would be considered by most golfers to be a "links" style course.

Gary D'Amato seems to think it fits the bill:

http://www2.jsonline.com/golfplus/may01/course16051501.asp

[Bill Weber]

Seville now The Dunes has a somewhat linksy look if not feel due to the fact it is located in the sand hills of FL. I don't recall being able to bump and run many shots but it's been a while since I've played there.

[Cliff Hamm]

Concur totally with Tim's coments about Newport National.  It tends not to be firm and dry, especially this year, but is also one of the best public courses in New England and a joy to play.  Interestingly Drew Rogers, an associate of Arthur Hills, is given co-credit for the design.  Here is a link to some pictures from the course website if anyone is interested

http://www.newportnational.com/photogallery.asp

[Kirk Gill]

Yes, Redanman, Legacy Ridge has a completely different feel, now. I have to say that I didn't really love it much even before the houses, but it was a longer drive for me than for you.

Virtually every course that's been built around Denver in the last few years is described as "links style" just because they're primarily being built on treeless land. Most have absolutely no links feel at all. Note: I am not referring to Ballyneal, which I have not played.

I did play a treeless Art Hills course recently, Walking Stick down in Pueblo, Colorado. I enjoyed it, for the most part. The 4th hole, a par five with a nicely rumpled fairway that curves to the left along a very deep, threatening, and attractive arroyo, was my favorite hole. It's desert golf, though, to my mind, more than links, although it is described as "one of the State's best Links courses" in an online coupon (I'm willing to forgive a lot on that account, though, as the coupon is for unlimited play any day after 4:00 p.m. for $14. Not bad.).

[John Foley]

I'm w/ Tim & Cliff on Newport National. Just played it on Monday and was simply blown away. How that course is not raved about here is beyond me. Is it from lack of people seing it perhaps? Had the chance to play Redtail which is very highly regarded, but this place blows it away.

I did a little looking and found nothing in the archives.

I'll plan on starting a thread on this later in the week when I get some time w/ more in depth thoughts.

[Doug Ralston]

You KNOW why it's not commented upon.

It is likely way too good to credit to the constantly discredited Art Hills. That would require an admission that the man, and his company, do afterall have a clue about golf architecture. Too many people here too committed to finding fault with him. [Example: "Bay Harbor is OK, but (name never revealed) could have done better with that property"]

Glad to see this cognitive discord revealed.  

Doug

[Doug Ralston]

Bump

[Paul Richards]

I guess Longaberger is the best of Art Hills' original work.

Any other candidates?

[Forrest Richardson]

Brian Yoder, a Hills/Forrest* associate, is working on a project in La Paz, Baja, Mexico. I am quite certain it is a seaside design. As I recall, that part of Baja is desert and cacti strewn...so, techiniaclly, not a sandy dunescape. When I think of Hills/Forrest* work it brings up trees, heartland America and more "American-ized" design theory.


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*Forrest = Steve Forrest...not the poster

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