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Jim Nugent

Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« on: July 27, 2006, 01:42:03 AM »
When I started playing -- the 1960's -- I don't remember many cart paths.  The carts roamed far and wide, all over the courses I was on.  

Is that real bad for courses?  Does it ruin the turf, or create maintenance headaches/nightmares?  

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 06:55:08 AM »
Compaction.

Compaction and turf health are incompatible....the solution is costly.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 07:03:11 AM »
Jim,

Early cart use did little damage because carts were either restricted to golfers with a medical excuse, or, the club could only afford a limited number of them.

As their number increased, something became obvious.
That the shortest distance between point A and point B became a dirt path from cart usage.

Hence, cart paths were initially used to divert traffic away from the heaviest areas of play, usually around the greens and tees and certain architectural features.

As caddies became extinct, and carts flourished, traffic and the problems caused by traffic increased, as did the impact to the golf course.

Enter rain and wet conditions.

When carts were prohibited from going on the golf course due to poor conditions, golfers complained that they paid their initiation and dues to play golf, and since caddies weren't available, and since they weren't going to carry their own bag, pressure began to build with respect to accomodating carts.  In addition, as more and more clubs relied on outside outings to reduce financial pressures, the need for cart paths increased.

Hence, some clubs installed them to allow for play in inclement weather.

Clubs with robust caddy programs probably suffer far less in the way of damage to the golf course.  

But, golfers today, don't have the same respect for the golf course, hence you see curbs, railroad ties, fences and ropes used to direct and control traffic.

I've seen golfers drive carts up to and on greens.

Golf carts, like water, are erosive if allowed to run on the same area, over and over again, day after day.  And, the areas are almost always at the green, tee and near unique architectural features in play.

So, the long answer is YES, carts, but no cart paths, harm/ruin golf courses.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 07:12:31 AM »
Patrick...the "errosive" nature of carts is certainly a very visible problem, but soil compaction is the primary problem caused by carts and the primary need for "cart paths".....
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 07:15:32 AM »
Craig Sweet,

Soil compaction is the early effect, hard, pancaked, convex dirt that's virtually unplayable is the ultimate effect.

JMorgan

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Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 07:16:50 AM »
After watching Hoylake, I wondered how long it will be until we see Segways rigged with bag holders on courses.  

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 07:22:42 AM »
Jim..by confining carts to a "cart path" you isolate the harm they do to fewer points...maintinance is thus easier...

The USGA Green Section has a few articles on cart's and damage to turf...the primary problem being compaction that leads to more arefying etc...

Patrick..."hardpan" and dead grass are more often than not caused by compaction....if the hardpan is in an area of heavy cart use, remove the carts and aerify...
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Mike_Young

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Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 07:49:10 AM »
After watching Hoylake, I wondered how long it will be until we see Segways rigged with bag holders on courses.  
Wolfcreek in Atlanta now has such
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 09:12:37 AM »
After watching Hoylake, I wondered how long it will be until we see Segways rigged with bag holders on courses.  
Wolfcreek in Atlanta now has such

Get out of town!  Mike, do you know what has been the user feedback?  Have you ever gotten a request to design with their use in mind?  

Well, I guess it's a step closer to walking and two less wheels....

Joe Hancock

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Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 09:13:48 AM »
I feel qualified to answer this one....

We don't have cart paths. We do have many carts. I don't put out any ropes, stakes or paint to direct or concentrate any traffic. We have less the three worn to dirt areas, all right next to tees.

Compaction happens quicker when traffic is concentrated. If you are a control freak and need to tell everyone where to drive, then pave something, otherwise leave it alone and grow tough grass.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John_Cullum

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Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 11:37:06 AM »
Craig Sweet,

Soil compaction is the early effect, hard, pancaked, convex dirt that's virtually unplayable is the ultimate effect.

Its a hell of a lot more playable than concrete.

The answer is to keep the compaction in the right areas.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 11:39:39 AM »
So, the long answer is YES, carts, but no cart paths, harm/ruin golf courses.
Except that, over time, cart path paving, maintenance, curbing, etc. begins to use up more and more of the Greens Committee budget meaning less money for the actually playing surface of the game.

Alan Carter

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Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 12:02:01 PM »
After watching Hoylake, I wondered how long it will be until we see Segways rigged with bag holders on courses.  

Those are already available.  I know that Kierland in Scottsdale rents them.

Chris Hughes

Re:Do carts but no cart paths harm/ruin courses?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 05:56:30 PM »
I feel qualified to answer this one....

We don't have cart paths. We do have many carts. I don't put out any ropes, stakes or paint to direct or concentrate any traffic. We have less the three worn to dirt areas, all right next to tees.

Compaction happens quicker when traffic is concentrated. If you are a control freak and need to tell everyone where to drive, then pave something, otherwise leave it alone and grow tough grass.

Joe

Bay Hill took your approach for a long time with no problems to speak of...what paths did exist were sand based and we played the ball off of them.

For some reason AP started paving a lot of places and I think it's been a negative for the golf course...liked it a lot better with the sand paths.

JMO

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