Is there a generational impediment to firm fast fairways ?

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

Not all of my clients want the same thing.  Not at all.  More than once recently, I've gotten calls from developers who want a great course, but who want the back yards of their homes green.

[ForkaB]

"Tommy
You forget those good old days when I was trying to coax out of you exactly the thoughts you expressed above, because I knew them then and you were just learning.  From time to time, you stray, and that is why I have to give you a little tweak to get you back on the straight and narrow.  However, if you really want to talk fast and firm, Grasshopper, you really need to spend more time in GBI.  You just can't get it sitting in Philadelphia or thinking back to the good old days with the good old boys at Talledega."

Rich:

Believe me, you definitely did not teach me my maintenance meld philosophy or a firm and fast philosophy and either did links golf.

I learned it right here in America and I distinctly remember the place and even the time when it all came together. Although I don't recall ever talking to him about it specifically if anyone was responsible I'd have to say it was probably Karl Olsen and what he did at NGLA.

NGLA is in America, isn't it grasshopper?  

I believe you, Tom.  All I'm saying is that when you were embarking on your learning journey 6-7 years ago, there were many people who had already been there before you.

[TEPaul]

Rich:

I had never seen anyone (any course) dedicatedly dial in the levels of firm and fast "through the green" (LZs), in the approaches and particularly the precise degree of green surface firmness I'm talking about. Not over here anyway (until Olsen and NGLA) and I'd played a ton of golf all over the place over here. It was a first. Maybe you think links golf invented the Ideal Maintenance Meld. Perhaps they did, since Scotland claims to have invented just about everything else probably including the Hula Hoop and the TWIST.  

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Regarding your post #22 you are simply wrong. I'm not saying it's everywhere and it never will be. But if you don't see the interest and push in that direction, frankly you're just blind or at the wrong golf courses. You should try getting on the bandwagon for a change, instead of always acting the naysayer. I am very encouraged by what I see.

[Mark_Fine]

Some of you might find this interesting, but I heard the other day that the President of Huntingdon Valley CC recently played Lehigh.  He was so impressed with the conditions of the course that he was sending a letter to Lehigh's President stating that Lehigh was the best conditioned course he'd played in some time.  

This is a compliment to the grounds staff but what is most interesting is that with all the rain we have had (buckets and buckets of it for weeks), the course is lush, green and unfortunately soft.  There is not much the Superintendent can do about mother nature, but evidently he still loved it.  Huntingdon Valley, as many here know, is always kept firm and "less than green".  I love what they do down there.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I believe in the trickle down effect when it comes to golf courses.

There are certain golf courses which stand above others, which set the trends and conditions for clubs at the local level.

They tend to be the great clubs of America.

What they do has a significant impact on sending "the message" to local clubs.  Their reach and influence is beyond what you and I can do.

But, when these clubs plant trees, narrow their fairways, grow their rough, and present lush green conditions, it's difficult to overcome that influence at the local level.

NGLA is setting a great example, but, only a few of the "impact" clubs are following suit.

Granted that we've had a wet spring and summer, but, most clubs want lush conditions, they don't want to see brownish-yellowish-greenish grass on their fairways and greens.

It's a combination of exposure to televised golf and a distancing from the roots of the game, vis a vis, pre automated irrigation systems.

Talk to someone who's 70 or older, who's been at a club/clubs for 50 years and see what they have to say about conditions, then talk to someone 30 years old, and see in what context they speak about conditions.  It's two different worlds and perspectives.

I didn't say that I was giving up, only that I"m not going to expend the time, passion and energy in an effort with a diminishing or failed return.

Craig Sweet,

Connect the dots and you'll understand my question to Tom Doak.

[Michael Kennedy]

Let's say that a membership did elect to keep their course firm and fast.  From an agronomy standpoint (assuming bent grass fairways and greens), how tricky is it to keep the course playing firm, yet keep the grass alive?  

I would suspect that the answer to this question lies in the particular soil, grass, and climactic conditions of the course.  I would also guess that for the vast majority of courses, it simply isn't possible without walking a very thin line.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael Kennedy,

It's not tricky at all.

It was done for decades and decades before automated irrigation systems watered golf courses wall to wall.

And, it doesn't require walking a very thin line as you suggest.
It's quite easy, all it takes is some lead time to get to fast & firm.   It's not an overnight transition.