Don't play this Scottish links!!

« **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:31:22 PM »

We played 36 holes at Carnoustie one day and if I had to pick one course to say negative things about, I would say, play it once only so when they hold future British Opens you will know what it is all about.

Don't skip it however.

« **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:34:55 PM »

The thing that always strikes me about Carnoustie is how visually distasteful the closing holes are. I don't know about you, but playing golf around what looks like a municipal sewage works doesn't appeal to me.

HAVING SAID THAT:

I can't tell you how much I enjoyed getting my butt kicked by what is a seriously tough golf course. Just accept your limitations and ride the roller-coaster. It's a blast!

FBD.

« **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2006, 06:39:50 PM »

Indeed. If Carnoustie had the views Turnberry has, I think it would be regarded as one of the top courses in the world. The drabness surrounding it make it look more drab, just as IMHO the beautiful views that abound at Turnberry make that course rate much higher than it should. Plus some golfers don't like getting their asses kicked, and Carnoustie is definitely capable of kicking your ass while Turnberry mostly kisses it.

While I have played a couple courses in Ireland I could take a pass on, I have yet to play anything in Scotland that I wouldn't be happy to play again, and wouldn't beat the golf experience at almost all American courses. But it is pretty obvious from this thread that different people dislike different courses. I may not rank Turnberry as highly as most others do, but I certainly would not refuse the offer of a day there and it probably won't stop me from returning at some point. It probably ranks more highly with married guys traveling with their wives, since the wife is less likely to complain about you golfing if she's getting pampered at the hotel's world class spa

« **Reply #28 on:** July 21, 2006, 06:49:57 PM »

Quote from: Martin Bonnar on July 21, 2006, 05:34:55 PM

The thing that always strikes me about Carnoustie is how visually distasteful the closing holes are. I don't know about you, but playing golf around what looks like a municipal sewage works doesn't appeal to me.

MARTIN!!!

That "sewage works" is a malting plant! Without it, you might not have any whisky to drink! Wash your mouth out with Bushmills my friend!

Ricardo

« **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2006, 07:28:09 PM »

Ricard, mon frere,
I mean not the glories of the malting plant. More the 'walled' burn and drainage 'solutions'. Daft, regular granite blockwork when lovely, soft landscape treatment would have looked - and played - much better. I have pics - I'll post when I can find my usb stick.

FBD.

« **Reply #30 on:** July 21, 2006, 08:24:24 PM »

Aye , and nae body mentions Balnagask ? .

« **Reply #31 on:** July 21, 2006, 09:02:56 PM »

This thread exemplifies Tom Paul's "Big World" Theory.

I can't believe some of the responses...

"Skip The Old Course."

What...

My lone round there, battling 30-40 mph winds was a RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE. If you are a golfer who truly loves the game, you need to stand on the first tee of The Old Course at least once in your lifetime.

I also loved Gullane #1. I think it is very underrated.

« **Reply #32 on:** July 21, 2006, 10:56:08 PM »

Quote from: JSlonis on July 21, 2006, 09:02:56 PM

a RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE. If you are a golfer who truly loves the game, you need to stand on the first tee of The Old Course at least once in your lifetime.

Without any doubt, the most memorable experience in my golfing life.

« **Reply #33 on:** July 22, 2006, 12:40:57 AM »

Tom,

I've had a bit of a think about Nairn. I haven't had access to my strokesaver or journal so off the top of my head this is the feeling. Also I must say that the member and his friend I played with on the day could not have been better blokes or more enjoyable company.

It had one good par 3 early in the round and an extremely good (possibly bunkerless) short four (15 or 16?) other than that I have little other clear memory of individual holes. Of the 26 courses I played on my trip this is the least recall I have of any course.

I found the gorse resembled tree lined fairways. It was all very straight edged and just bugged me for some reason (Gorse has never bugged me on other courses. Dornoch for example). It has few remarkable features no large dunes but also little of the Humpity Bumpity of either TOC or TOC Ballyliffin.

I had read about the quality of the greens and although the surfaces were the equal of anything I played in Scotland I didn't find them particularly great. Also I played it after a big Amateur Tourny (European Amateur?) so I would expect the greens were somewhere near the'r best.

It is possible I overstated Tain. But at the very least it is worth seeing for The Alps.

Nairn and The European Club were the two courses that just failed to grab me. Maybe I was just on a downer those two days. I have heard better reports than mine from these courses and won't completely write off either on a single days experience.

« **Reply #34 on:** July 22, 2006, 04:49:32 PM »

To all of you who responded incredulously to my original post: sheesh. Really, you are all so far up the Treehouse that you can't begin to see what the average golfer might want from his FIRST visit to Scotland, particularly if his tastes are not the average GolfClubAtlaser's. I stand by my previous post: very few (if any) golfers will get any real insight about the architecture of the Old Course in a single visit, so *if* you have little or no interest in the history of the place - most people do, of course - you shouldn't bother. North Berwick (West Links) and Prestwick are acquired tastes with blind and goofy shots galore: if you don't like quirky architecture, don't bother. Ditto my other comments...I love the Old Course, I enjoy the quirkiness of North Berwick, etc. etc., but at the same time I have American buddies who don't and wouldn't ever "get" those two courses, and so when they next come over to visit I'll be steering them in the direction of courses like Kingsbarns and Gullane which I think they will actually enjoy unreservedly.

Look, it's great that so many of you love all of Scotland's golf courses so unconditionally. But the average pilgrimage to Scotland lasts, how long, maybe 1-2 weeks? How many courses do you expect someone to play in that window of time? In two weeks, it doesn't make sense to play any more than 12-15 courses - you'll exhaust yourself if you try - and hence some element of selectivity is an absolute necessity. By not playing TOC, North Berwick, Prestwick, Troon or Carnoustie, you've *still* got enough to populate an itinerary with Muirfield, Gullane, Turnberry, Western Gailes, Machrihanish (and Dunaverty), Dornoch, Brora, Nairn, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, St. Andrews New, Kingsbarns, Crail (or Elie)...and many, many others. Even then, trying to get to Machrihanish, Dornoch, Cruden Bay and the main Ayrshire/East Lothian belt in one trip is hugely ambitious - you'll clock up a lot of miles on the road, and again, you'll likely exhaust yourself. PLUS, if you're coming to Scotland for the first time, why not spend a day or two away from the golf courses and visit Edinburgh Castle or a whiskey distillery or do something else touristy?

Cheers,
Darren

« **Reply #35 on:** July 22, 2006, 05:04:39 PM »

Darren,
You brought up an excellent point about TOC and most golfers tastes. After my 2 rounds there, as elated as I was, I was also depressed to realize that it would probably take 100 rounds there to begin to pick up on the many nuances of the course, how it plays in various winds, etc... However, I would still say any first pilgrimage over should include TOC. Most casual golfers will have no idea how cool the course is anyway, so they don't need to play it more than once.

« **Reply #36 on:** July 22, 2006, 06:16:29 PM »

Doug Siebert- news flash! Carnoustie is the #21 rated course in the 2005 Golf Mag world list. I think it's a great championship layout although pretty brutal certainly with as tough a set of finishing holes as you want. Any serious golfer should not miss it. Just listening to the caddies still argue over what Van de Velde should have or could have done is worth playing it.
Darren- your post is very thoughtful. Anyone who really appreciates history and architecture should play all the name courses and the Open venues. I thought Royal Troon was was weakest and least enjoyable of all the greats I played, but I'm still thrilled that I could experience it.

« **Reply #37 on:** July 22, 2006, 06:46:28 PM »

Chris Burgard: Is this just your first trip to Scotland or is it also your first exposure to links golf anywhere? If it's the latter, I think my only recommendation would be not to play the Old Course first. I did that, and found that the style of play is different enough that I couldn't focus on my surroundings as well as I would've liked. Once you get your sea legs and a taste for links golf, of course you'll want to play it as many times as your budget will allow.

I'm hoping to play my second round on TOC this fall. Darren K's right--after only one round I can't say I have any real insight into the course.

« **Reply #38 on:** July 22, 2006, 06:54:52 PM »

Paging Mr. Huckaby....

You hold him, I'll hit him. Then we'll switch!

« **Reply #39 on:** July 22, 2006, 11:11:43 PM »

I don't see why anyone would want to scrub Carnoustie from a list - it's a great course and isn't as difficult as commonly made out.

I'd miss Tain, Southerness and any of the Gullane courses from the B list. They all have a good hole or two but are otherwise nothing special.

Nairn is the confusing one. It's better than the three above, but doesn't really qualify as a must see.

« **Reply #40 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:00:47 AM »

Carnoustie is the most miserable links course in the world and if I was on my first trip to Scotland I would not go near it if you paid me to play it. You have to be a sadist to play that course for fun...I have never been so mentally drained after 18 holes of golf.

I also agree with Darren about TOC, unless you into the whole history thing about the area and the course don't bother...if however you do not dare go back to the US without playing it then go for it...

Drop Carnoustie...

« **Reply #41 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:41:04 AM »

Chris,

As I am only usually there for a short period of time I try and target those that come highly recommended via friends / readings / ratings / rankings etc.

Of those that I have seen and were least impressive for mine:
Gullane (#1 - #3)
St. Andrews (Jubilee)
Turnberry (Kintyre)
Luffness (New)
Glasgow Gailes

« **Reply #42 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:52:11 AM »

If I thought I would return after my initial visit I would not leave a single location to play any course. Too many times I've seen fellow Americans wasting time travelling when they could easily be playing an additional course or a redo on a day in which so much daylight is available. There is enough great golf in East Lothian, Fife, Aberdeen, Dornoch, and Troon areas for a week or more from a single B&B. If the trip is a one shot deal then all bets are off.

« **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:51:55 PM »

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!

This will be my first trip and I am definately playing Muirfield since they have my money already

. I plan on playing TOC (but not first...Thanks Tom Dunne), North Berwick x2, Dornoch twice, Brora, Cruden Bay x2, Royal Aberdeen x2 and Boat of Garten, but I still have some days to fill in. I don't think that Macrihanish will make the agenda for this trip. I will be adding at least one day in Grampian, one more in the Highlands and one more in St. Andrews.

Yes, I know it is alot of driving but I look forward to seeing as much of the country as possible and not just one region.

Thanks again!
Chris

« **Reply #44 on:** July 24, 2006, 06:17:52 PM »

Chris -

I hope you hired a driver as it was the best investment I made when I was there. I could never find my way around those highways left to do it myself.

TOC is a religious experience, but I have friends here, like Darren said, that would NEVER play it again. The feeling on that first tee is something else though.

I am more like Huckaby in that I loved every course I played in Scotland so I am sorry I can't help eliminate any from your list. Prestwick was a treat and I loved Western Gailes. Troon and Carnoustie were better than people give them credit for.

You will have a blast, enjoy.

« **Reply #45 on:** July 24, 2006, 09:23:26 PM »

Chris, if you are looking for one more near St. Andrews, the Balcomie Links at Crail are ancient, interesting and fun. Old Tom from the 1870's. As I mentioned above, the course is a bit congested at the start out by the ocean cliff, but that was on the Thursday of the Open last summer and there was a fair crowd.

« **Reply #46 on:** July 24, 2006, 11:40:58 PM »

It looks like you are already doing so, but I would skip Troon -

Expensive, with most of the holes simply straight affairs with bunkers along the side of the fairways. If you are dying to see the postage stamp and the holes in the dunes, by all means go, but compared to the others I have seen there, I think it falls well short.

« **Reply #47 on:** July 25, 2006, 05:03:39 AM »

Quote from: Brian Phillips on July 23, 2006, 07:00:47 AM

Carnoustie is the most miserable links course in the world and if I was on my first trip to Scotland I would not go near it if you paid me to play it. You have to be a sadist to play that course for fun...I have never been so mentally drained after 18 holes of golf.

I also agree with Darren about TOC, unless you into the whole history thing about the area and the course don't bother...if however you do not dare go back to the US without playing it then go for it...

Drop Carnoustie...

I've only played Carnoustie once, with my wife. It was on an awful day with heavy wind blowing horizontally. We both got drenched under our waterproofs. I got utterly murdered by the course - couldn't hit the fairways, couldn't hit the greens, couldn't putt.

We both enjoyed it so much that we went straight in to see if there was another tee time available.

I guess it depends on what you want from a golf course but it's very high on my list of courses to get back to ASAP.

« **Reply #48 on:** July 25, 2006, 08:46:45 AM »

Skip the Old Course play the New
Skip Kingsbarns
Skip Carnoustie
Skip any course you can hire carts on.

News:

cary lichtenstein

Marty Bonnar

Doug Siebert

ForkaB

Marty Bonnar

Brian_Ewen

JSlonis

John_Cullum

Sean Walsh

Darren_Kilfara

ed_getka

Wayne Freeman

Tom Dunne

Bill_McBride

Mark_F

Brian Phillips

Kevin Pallier

Bill Weber

Chris Burgard

Jim Franklin

Bill_McBride

Jason Topp

Mark Pearce

sorley