Best Choice for Bandon's 4th Course

« **on:** July 23, 2006, 02:14:10 AM »

Assuming he picks someone other than Kidd, Doak, or Coore & Crenshaw, who would you most like to see Mike Keiser select as the architect of a 4th course at Bandon Dunes?

Side question: What features of the existing three courses, if any, would you like to be incorporarted into the design of the 4th?

« **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2006, 02:30:51 AM »

Kyle

Oh it has been speculated for some time now that the job is going to go to Kyle Phillips, after what he and his crew did at Kingsbarns.

Provided the 4th course is built where everyone thinks it is going to be, to the north of Pacific, the site looks rather flat.

It will be interesting to see what the designer, whoever it may be, will do with that piece of land. For some reason when I look at it I envision Muirfield.

If K. Phillips does not have the gig wrapped up, surely The Proverbial Treehouse here thinks it ought to go to Hanse or Devries.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2006, 01:48:55 PM »

Thank you for the update, Sir. Maybe I'll have to be more diligent in my search for past, pertinent threads to avoid repeating old exchanges...

I've heard many raves about Kyle Phillip's "dune fabrication" work at Kingsbarn, and I greatly enjoyed playing Morgan Creek and the front nine at Bodega Harbour (which I believe he designed while with RTJ Jr's firm). However, I didn't think that his contours at either of these sites were as natural in appearance as Kingsbarn is supposed to be. I'm sure the setting at Bandon will bring his formidable talents to the fore... if he gets the job.

I just hope it doesn't delay or prevent him from completing the Alameda Point Golf Links (on the shore of the San Francisco Bay).

« **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2006, 01:57:34 PM »

Not to take anything at all away from Kyle Philips but I met one of the shapers who did the work at Kingsbarns. He is doing much of the work on the new #7 course at St. Andrews. Mike K. better make sure that guy is willing to cross the pond with Kyle to do the shaping

At #7, Kidd and his team have all but left this same man who shaped Kingsbarns to do his own thing with the shaping of their golf course! They simply did a rough conceptual design (I have a copy of the sketch) and they then come back periodically to inspect/approve the work and are usually blown away by what they find!

« **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2006, 02:25:47 PM »

I will bet Kyle, too.

Mark — While the shaper may have tremendous freedom on a site, it is the architect who selects the shaper(s) and decides that fredom — and ultimately calls the shots.

Whoever Mr. Kaiser engages for No. 4, it will certainly be someone he can trust to lead the design...and that will be the guy who creates the vision, draws the plans and oversees each and every decision on the way to getting it grassed.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2006, 02:30:50 PM »

DRAWS THE PLANS?

Come on, Forrest. Mike is 0 for 3 in picking someone to draw him a plan.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2006, 03:04:40 PM »

"Plans", Tom D., include the results of finding a routing. I realize at Bandon that many holes were "drawn" in the field by staking, but at some point the course gets laid out and it amounts to a "plan". Guess I should not have used the word "draw".

Create?

« **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2006, 03:06:13 PM »

I wish he'd pick me.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2006, 03:30:35 PM »

"Create" is probably a fair word for the site of the next course.

For the first courses, even that would be a bit of an overstatement. "Find" the course is probably more accurate for those.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2006, 03:38:14 PM »

Kyle -

I live in SF and have heard nothing about the Alameda Point Golf Links project you mentioned.

What can you tell me about it? Location? Start date? Public or private?

Thanks!

DT

« **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2006, 03:58:18 PM »

Tom,
Then what are these two plans I'm looking at, one of a routing of Pacific Dunes that has holes that were never used and another of the Sheep Ranch that I obtained while it was being contstructed?

Surely that could be defined as a routing plan couldn't it?

« **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2006, 04:02:06 PM »

Also, Forrest, I too agree with Tom that Mike Keiser doesn't do the type of plans that you do, which is a completely different type of school or thinking of golf acrhitecture. I think that is what Tom was getting at.

I never thought of Bandon Dunes being a topo/overlay type of development.

« **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2006, 04:04:13 PM »

Maybe we could get the topo of the property and use it for the GCA architecture contest...

« **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2006, 04:36:39 PM »

Adam, there's a phenomenal idea!!!

« **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2006, 05:30:55 PM »

Why not? I realize that an architect is an architect, but it might be interesting to see what a bunch of enthusiasts can come up with for ill-informed suggestions. It's all in the name of exciting golf.

Who knows where the land is? We can call up the coordinates and post the topo...

A

« **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2006, 06:44:52 PM »

I'd like to see Jeff Brauer get the assignment

« **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2006, 06:51:39 PM »

I believe Keiser has said that a 4th course would be built east of Pacific Dunes. And a 5th course, if that were to happen, would be built on the land north of PD and incorporate the location of the BallyBandon Sheep Ranch.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:40:43 PM »

I think we can all agree Art Hills would do a great job!

Doug

« **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:42:14 PM »

Oh, and if Art did mess up a few holes, we could always bring in Ress to fix it!

Doug

« **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2006, 10:04:25 PM »

Quote from: Doug Ralston on July 23, 2006, 07:40:43 PM

I think we can all agree Art Hills would do a great job!

Doug

I would have thought that Fazio would have been the consensus pick on this DG....

No, wait, I have a better idea, how about a partnership with Trump? Maybe that would upgrade the place and settle the issues certain KY people have with the place. (a little fun at someone's expense who can't respond as he is on a plane to Ireland as we speak).

« **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2006, 10:08:58 PM »

One of our caddies last week said that David Kidd already has been awarded the commission.

I'm not sure if he got this straight from Mr. Keiser.

« **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2006, 11:30:24 PM »

I heard it was Keith Phillips who did Bardougle Dunes

« **Reply #22 on:** July 24, 2006, 12:11:04 AM »

On July 3 Mike Keiser said the decision had not yet been made. Of course, he might have decided since then. At least in that conversation I don't believe he expressed a preference among the three he has already had. It was interesting to me that several times he mentioned David Kidd, Tom Doak and Bill Coore but never once uttered the name Crenshaw.

« **Reply #23 on:** July 24, 2006, 12:17:17 AM »

Wasn't Steve Smyers & Brian Silva in the discussions at one time? Both would be great choices.

« **Reply #24 on:** July 24, 2006, 12:29:06 AM »

I have not seen Nicklaus' name mentioned as someone Keiser might consider. Is he out of the running?

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