How hard do they hit it?

[JohnV]

The Open Championship stats include the ball speed and launch angle on the players tee shots on #16.  I looked at a bunch from yesterday and nobody had a higher ball speed that Tiger (this was the one hole he hit driver on).

Some numbers:

Tiger 189mpg 10.2 launch angle
JB Holmes 188 10.8
Daly 184 12.6
Goosen 174 11.7
Brett Wetterich 182 11.7
Couples 177 13.2
DeMarco 162 14.4
Faldo 160 12.8
Els - no numbers
Singh 168 13.6 (3-wood?)
Lefty 181 10
Garcia 177 5 (yes 5 degrees, mishit?)
Ogilvy 173 13.3
Weir 164 11
Watson 159 12.2
Funk 156 9.9

To see others, go to theopen.com click on full leaderboard, click on the player you're interested in and then the Statistics tab.

Currently they only have the numbers for the first round and there is no way to see all of them at once.

Given it is only one drive, it really doesn't mean that much as they might have mishit it.

[Adam Clayman]

John, Would you associate that stat as describing a skill?

[Jim_Kennedy]

John,
Although he's not playing, the longest guy from Bagdad (Florida), Bubba Watson, has some pretty incredible numbers. 196 ball sp., 124 clubhead sp., 15.5 launch, 1865 spin and 360 yd carry.

Adam,
I think that's a skill.  

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

Those ball speed numbers you put up there sure does put that young man from Nebraska I've posted about on here in perspective, doesn't it?

Nebraska's 18 year old "Long John" Hurley was clocked by the USGA's sophisiticated computer equipment at the US Amateur at Merion at 196 mph!! After we walked off the tee on Merion's #5 leaving the tech guys in a tizzie, Long John said to me; "I didn't even hit that one very good or very hard."

I check with the USGA Tech Center every now and again to ask them if they've ever recorded a real life ball speed any higher and the answer thus far as been, "Nope".

Sieckman's test center in Omaha believe they clocked Hurley's ball speed at over 200 mph!

BTW, the USGA tech guy did a ballpark swing speed calculation of that 196 mph ball speed of Hurley's and came up with a swing speed of 133 mph.

[JohnV]

Tom,  There is a college kid here in Western PA that was measured where I got fitted and the owner of the store said he was around 195.  Of course, that isn't on a golf course so it isn't the same thing to me.

I just looked at the stats for round 2 and most of the guys ball speed was within 1-2 MPH of the previous days, but the launch angles seemed to vary by more.  Interestingly, Garcia had a 4.1 degree launch angle which is even lower than yesterday.

Frank Thomas says the optimum is 13 degrees and almost every one of these guys was less than that.  I seem to recall that the folks from the USGA said that most tour players were not at the optimum launch angle.

Adam, I do think it is a skill.  One that is helped by matching the skill with the equipment to optimize it.  The ability to swing fast and still make solid contact to get those kind of ball speeds is impressive to me.

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

I recall a USGA Tech Center technician explaining that the absolute ideal launch angle is not acheivable by a human being and never will be.  

[Matt_Cohn]

At 95 mph, the ideal launch conditions are around 32 degrees with 1250 rpm of backspin. That's ideal for maximum distance, at least.

Tom, I think those are the numbers that go along with your statement.

[Doug Siebert]

Matt,

How much difference in distance would it make if it were possible to achieve those numbers at 95 mph versus some more typical/realistic numbers?  Is it only a 5 or 10 yards or would that add 40 to 50 yards?

[Jim Nugent]

At 95 mph, the ideal launch conditions are around 32 degrees with 1250 rpm of backspin. That's ideal for maximum distance, at least.

Tom, I think those are the numbers that go along with your statement.

Does launch angle mean the angle from the ground the shot takes off from the club?  Which club is it, btw, the driver?  Does it matter what the loft on the driver is?  

While I know zero about this, 32 degrees sounds incredibly high.

[TEPaul]

Jim:

You're right---it is interesting and mysterious as to what exactly that means. The USGA's Tech Center mentioned that to me a few years ago without supporting numbers. They only said that it's virtually impossible for a human being's body or swing to accomplish the ideal launch angle for maximum distance. Part of this today could also mean it's not even allowable in golf to tee the ball high enough to even try to get closer to the ideal launch angle.

[Matt_Cohn]

Doug, it's something like a 40 or 50 yard difference, yes, at least according to the computer.

I figure if you could tee the ball nine inches high, play it a foot in front of your forward foot, and swing at it with a 45 inch putter, you could probably get pretty close!

Otherwise, you're right Tom, there's no good way to launch a ball at 32 degrees legally with a low-lofted club.

Jim, those are launch numbers for a ball speed around 145 mph so it doesn't matter what club you do it with.

[Matt_Cohn]

The golf tip that results from this, by the way, is that if you ever need an extra 10 yards, tee the ball up higher, play it further forward in your stance, and make sure you come from underneath and square up the club fully so the ball comes out high and with lower spin - hopefully a bit of draw spin - than normal.

[Wayne_Kozun]

JohnV:

I recall a USGA Tech Center technician explaining that the absolute ideal launch angle is not acheivable by a human being and never will be.  

Isn't the optimal launch angle going to vary depending on the conditions and topography of the golf hole?  Wouldn't you want a lower launch angle on a fast & hard course as Hoylake is this week?  Wouldn't you want a lower launch angle on a hole that is severely downhill - like #18 at Kapalua Plantation?  Wouldn't you want a higher launch angle when you are hitting a shot into a large hill?

[Jeff Fortson]

I have been in a room with a kid who clocked a 202mph ball speed.  I have seen him hit Driver - Pitching Wedge to a 540 yard par-5.  He made a 7.


Jeff F.

[Mike Benham]

I have been in a room with a kid who clocked a 202mph ball speed.  I have seen him hit Driver - Pitching Wedge to a 540 yard par-5.  He made a 7.

You mean he hit driver, wedge, wedge, wedge, putter, putter, putter ...

[Matt_Cohn]

I put myself on the launch monitor today. Swing average 102, ball speed 155. If I really hit it hard, 107 and about 162. On par with Funk and Faldo, which seems about right. About 10% below the tour average. So I started thinking about what it would be like to have 10% more swing and ball speed. A 7,000 yard course feels like 6,360. Medinah at 7,600 yards feels like 6,910.

Coincidentally, I received "Physical Golf" in the mail today from Martin Del Vecchio. Thank you Martin! Hmm...10%...more swing speed...

[JR Potts]

I have lost total faith in launch monitors.  This May, I was put on a lauch monitor for the first time.  My old driver was a TP R-7 with a 75 gram Fujikara shaft.  My swing average was in the mid 120s, my ball speed was in the high 170's but my launch angle was around 8 degrees.  The club fitting outfit matched me up with the new Nike Sasquatch 460cc with some designer shaft.  My readings were upper 120s, ball speed in the high 180s and low 190s and launch angle at 12 degrees.  The monitor said I was flying it 310 yards.

Two weeks later I got the club.  Until switching back to my R-7 last week, I did not sniff a 310+ yard drive.  Every drive I hit flew high but never made it to the spot where my old "ill-fitting" equipment was landing.  Yadda, yadda yadda, I'm back hitting my R-7 and pissed that I spent $750 in reliance on some numbers generated by a computer.

The moral of the story in my book.  Scrap the launch montior...take 4 drivers out on the course for a couple of weeks and test them there.  It will be the only way you get a true measure of the club's performance.

[Jonathan Cummings]

189mpg

John - do you have gas prices on your mind??