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Jon Wiggett

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Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« on: July 19, 2006, 06:24:36 PM »
Having read a few recent posts about 9 hole layouts I have the following question. If rated purely on the golfing experience would a 9 hole course be rated as equal to an 18 hole course?

Jim Sweeney

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 07:59:42 PM »
I don't see why not, except that over 18 holes one will see a little more variety, especially in out and back or figure eight routings, it seems to me.

Best thing about a nine holer- if you really like it, you can re-experienc it right away!
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Tom_Doak

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 08:50:20 PM »
Jon:  In my opinion, nine holes cannot quite be the equal of 18.  In The Confidential Guide, I said that I would only rate a nine-hole course on a 1-9 scale, and I gave a perfect "9" to Royal Worlington & Newmarket.

I think that a great nine holes can be plenty for a small club -- if you want to play 18 just go around again!  But you can't compare that to an 18-hole course in terms of variety, to be fair you'd have to pit the best nine-hole course against the best front nine or back nine of any other course.

But, if Crystal Downs only had the front nine, it would still be pretty great.


Jon Wiggett

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2006, 08:44:37 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts Jim and Tom.
Tom I think your right in that when judged as a playing unit of 18 holes that a 9 holer is going to lack in diversity.
This then leads me to another thought. If a course is cramped for land for 18 but had plenty if land for 9 would it be worth while building alternate tees and greens for every hole and just play the same fairway?. I know there are many 9 holers with two sets of tees but are there any with two sets of greens as well?

Tom_Doak

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2006, 09:12:46 AM »
Jon:  In a word, yes.

In fact, I have seen projects where one could have created a terrific nine holes, but instead they felt it essential to jam 18 holes on the property and it was so crammed in that they ruined some of the holes that would have been used on the great nine.  [Unfortunately, sometimes this is an economic necessity -- when location and land cost cannot be supported by the lesser dues and smaller memberships of a nine-hole couse.]

Just one example:  The Old Head of Kinsale would clearly have been one of the great courses in the world had they just built nine holes mostly around the outside edges, perhaps some with multiple routes to the green.

That's also partly how The Sheep Ranch came to be what it is today.  When we were routing the course, the consensus was that the inland parts were less interesting, and whenever we routed a hole that played away from the water, no one liked it.  So we came up with a plan where you never had to leave the coastline if you didn't want to, you could just play along it backward and forward, and if you got bored with that you could start playing away to the inland greens and then back out.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2006, 02:11:17 PM »
It has been said that Royal Worlington has enough spare land (or could have purchased it) to expand to 18, but they didn't because the surrounding land does not have that fast-draining sub-soil.  I imagine they also like the quirk of being 9 holes.  I have to say that coming to the ninth green knowing that you are just about to start on that same nine again is an excitement, full of anticipation, and absolutely no disappointment.  I'd say the same about Knutsford, a local 10-hole course which has 8 holes in common and separate 9th and 18th holes.

PCCraig

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2006, 03:51:33 PM »
The Dunes Club in New Buffalo, MI is such a fantastic experience it's hard to know where to start. 9 holes of great golf in a great setting.

H.P.S.

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2006, 04:18:01 PM »
Jon,

How are you ?

Personally I feel an interesting 9-Hole will always be a better golf experience than an uninteresting 18-Hole. Although an interesting 18 Hole with 18 different holes will in turn be a better golfing experience than the 9-Hole being played twice.

I like the idea of 2 different sets of greens and 2 different sets of tees – I’ve heard of large greens with 2 different pin positions before but never played one so I can’t comment on the experience.

Apparently in Japan it’s common practise to have a spare green on 18-Hole courses. I think it’s used more for ease of maintenance than as an alternative strategy though. Maybe somone else has some more insight ?


Cheers

John

Tom_Doak

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2006, 04:25:55 PM »
John:

Those two-green courses in Japan are for maintenance purposes.  One is a bentgrass green for winter play, the other korai (a form of zoysia) for hot summers.  They actually result in LESS variety, because it's hard to fit in two greens on every hole and most wind up being dull side-by-side affairs with a bunker in between.  

Michael Dugger

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2006, 07:49:04 PM »
Tom Doak

I have heard next to nothing about Royal Worlington and Newmarket.

Considering you give it a 9 on your scale, can you briefly express what is so wonderful about this course?

I am curious to know

thx


 
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Doug Ralston

Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2006, 07:58:23 PM »
I can only comment that there are 2 nine-hole courses I know, which I would prefer to play rather than a mediocre 18. And on weekends, they tend to be easiest to get a good tee time. We play them twice, and they are interesting enough to not seem repetitive.

Doug

Andrew Summerell

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2006, 08:08:26 PM »
The golf course I played as a child was a 15 hole course. Front 9, Back 6. It wasn't great by any means, but was reasonable as a muni.

In the last 20 years, they extended it to 18 & have diminished any quality the course had.

Phil McDade

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Re:Can 9 holes be the equal of 18
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2006, 08:18:51 PM »
Michael:

Royal Worlington and Newmarket is considered by many golf architecture fans as perhaps the finest 9-hole course in the UK. It's the home course for Cambridge University's golf team, apparently. Ran M., who affectionately refers to it as the Sacred Nine, has a write-up here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/RWN.html

Some, however, are not persuaded. An earlier thread that I initiated on the best 9-holers in this country had a poster who didn't see what the big deal was with RW&N. Esteemed Philadelphia golf writer James Finegan, in his book "All Courses Great and Small," didn't really think it was all that, either. I haven't played it, but simply wondered if any 9-hole course on this side of the pond carries a similar reputation as RW&N. Prairie Dunes, host of the recent U.S. Senior Open, once did, before Maxwell Jr. added another nine.

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